1.7 Alpha 1 Ready!

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Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:45 pm

Noticed 1.7 hitEffects accept damageHP like effects.

Currently, we have (@ gData 'damageHP) to pass average shot damage to effects, fireEffects, and hitEffects?

Do we have a field to pass the weapon bonus (from item mods, enhancers, Strengthen) to the events?

Passing and using the weapon bonus too would be nice to make lasers bigger and bluer than normal. I am trying to do this (in my mod) without resorting to dozens of types of varying colors and sizes.
Download and Play in 1.7 Beta...
Playership Drones v7 (Beta): Acquire and command almost any ship in Stars of the Pilgrim or Eternity Port.
Drake Technologies (Alpha): More hardware for combat in parts 1 and 2!
Star Castle Arcade: Relive classic arcade gaming in a new Transcendence adventure!
Godmode v3 (WIP): Dev/cheat tool compatible with D&O parts 1 or 2.

shanejfilomena
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Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:42 pm

PM wrote:Noticed 1.7 hitEffects accept damageHP like effects.

Currently, we have (@ gData 'damageHP) to pass average shot damage to effects, fireEffects, and hitEffects?

Do we have a field to pass the weapon bonus (from item mods, enhancers, Strengthen) to the events?

Passing and using the weapon bonus too would be nice to make lasers bigger and bluer than normal. I am trying to do this (in my mod) without resorting to dozens of types of varying colors and sizes.
I was trying to take out OutLaw stations this morning, the OmniLaser took a very long time to break it open..it wasn't registering the damage very accurately in my opinion..or it could just be that some things are just not as easy as they used to be..

However, the effects are very interesting and how they relate to damage was the question I was going to ask....but you asked it :)
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JohnBWatson
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Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:30 pm

shanejfilomena wrote:
I was trying to take out OutLaw stations this morning, the OmniLaser took a very long time to break it open..it wasn't registering the damage very accurately in my opinion..or it could just be that some things are just not as easy as they used to be..

However, the effects are very interesting and how they relate to damage was the question I was going to ask....but you asked it :)
Multihulled stations now require use of missiles to take down effectively - a fast firing laser is no longer almost as good as a howitzer for killing light stations. Try buying a missile pod or NAMI launcher, and using that to kill them instead.

This new mechanic is lots of fun when fighting capital ships. Using the updated DM600 pod, I took down a Charon Stronghold, then destroyed the frigate that was guarding it in a close but spectacular fight.

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Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:37 pm

PM wrote:Noticed 1.7 hitEffects accept damageHP like effects.

Currently, we have (@ gData 'damageHP) to pass average shot damage to effects, fireEffects, and hitEffects?

Do we have a field to pass the weapon bonus (from item mods, enhancers, Strengthen) to the events?

Passing and using the weapon bonus too would be nice to make lasers bigger and bluer than normal. I am trying to do this (in my mod) without resorting to dozens of types of varying colors and sizes.
For hit effects, 'damageHP is the actual damage caused, after bonus and damage adjustment.

For projectile effects and fire effects (muzzle flash) 'damageHP is average damage not counting bonuses. It's a little tricky to add bonuses into the mix because right now I cache the effect per weapon. But there might be a way to do this in the future.

In case you haven't seen it, the full list of fields is here: https://ministry.kronosaur.com/record.hexm?id=19002

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Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:56 pm

george moromisato wrote:For projectile effects and fire effects (muzzle flash) 'damageHP is average damage not counting bonuses. It's a little tricky to add bonuses into the mix because right now I cache the effect per weapon. But there might be a way to do this in the future.
Just found that out the hard way...

And the difference between instance "creator" and "owner". Most of the effects have "owner", but I made some copies (for custom effects) and gave it "creator" instead.

When I updated my rainbow beam to 1.7 alpha, I used objSetData on the missile itself to remember the colors it used. (Color varies, but by time of firing, not damage.)

What I am trying to do, if damageHP is unenhanced, is try to remember the damage bonus so I can do the math and spawn the appropriate color and size for beams. (For example, +75% from laser collimator turns small red laser into a bigger yellow-green laser, and turns bigger green turbolaser to an even bigger blue or purple x-ray laser.) I have not had the chance yet, but I might try to spawn muzzleflashes and beams via OnFireWeapon event (where aWeaponBonus is available), and hope that works. If it does, it will save me dozens of types, even if it bloats event code.
george moromisato wrote:In case you haven't seen it, the full list of fields is here: https://ministry.kronosaur.com/record.hexm?id=19002
I remember reading it before, but forgot about it. Thanks.
Download and Play in 1.7 Beta...
Playership Drones v7 (Beta): Acquire and command almost any ship in Stars of the Pilgrim or Eternity Port.
Drake Technologies (Alpha): More hardware for combat in parts 1 and 2!
Star Castle Arcade: Relive classic arcade gaming in a new Transcendence adventure!
Godmode v3 (WIP): Dev/cheat tool compatible with D&O parts 1 or 2.

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JohnBWatson
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Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:04 pm

Made a bit more progress on my comprehensive testing run, which has now reached the Charon system. I have built up a stock of about 600 stilettos from killing every frigate I came across, so I look forward to burning those off in the next go.

A summary of what I've noticed:

- The OTL can definitely beat the Slicer, I just forgot to use the targeting ROM earlier, so I wasn't able to keep my distance. With targeting installed, beating him with it was a cakewalk.

- The AI, evidently, does not take tracking into account when trying not to shoot at friendly targets. The planned AI alterations to fight luring will probably fix this well enough, but it's too much fun not to mention. Thus ends the story of how I killed the Kronosaurus with a Corporate Cruiser.

- The early game explosions don't seriously hurt anything except Corsair Is, Hornets, and Centauri raiders, and seem to be well balanced there. Programming ships to keep their distance from each other would still be a good idea for limiting friendly fire(most noticeable in missions with Brit squadrons), though.

- New weapon prices in the early game are pretty solid. Definitely keeps the player from getting too much money too quickly. As someone else mentioned, the rate at which they show up in loot should be similarly adjusted to prevent unintended side effects.

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Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:43 pm

Topic 'More weapon balance stats' wrote:Yeah, I will once we work out the bugs in the algorithm. [p.s.: Once I release 1.7 Alpha 1 you'll be able to generate these yourself with TransData.]
Now that 1.7 alpha is out, how do we do this?

Also, what is the algorithm? Or rather, how are some of the cells calculated? Some are straightforward (or explained elsewhere, in case of damage), but others are not. Also, while mostly figured out ammoless weapons, I have no idea how ammo is balanced. I am trying to use parts of the algorithm I figured out by hand, and what I don't know, I am winging it.
Download and Play in 1.7 Beta...
Playership Drones v7 (Beta): Acquire and command almost any ship in Stars of the Pilgrim or Eternity Port.
Drake Technologies (Alpha): More hardware for combat in parts 1 and 2!
Star Castle Arcade: Relive classic arcade gaming in a new Transcendence adventure!
Godmode v3 (WIP): Dev/cheat tool compatible with D&O parts 1 or 2.

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Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:46 am

PM wrote:
Topic 'More weapon balance stats' wrote:Yeah, I will once we work out the bugs in the algorithm. [p.s.: Once I release 1.7 Alpha 1 you'll be able to generate these yourself with TransData.]
Now that 1.7 alpha is out, how do we do this?

Also, what is the algorithm? Or rather, how are some of the cells calculated? Some are straightforward (or explained elsewhere, in case of damage), but others are not. Also, while mostly figured out ammoless weapons, I have no idea how ammo is balanced. I am trying to use parts of the algorithm I figured out by hand, and what I don't know, I am winging it.
To get the stats, use:

TransData /itemtable /criteria:"wM" /balanceStats

This will output a tab-delimited set of rows and columns.

The balance algorithm is defined here: https://github.com/kronosaur/Mammoth/bl ... s.cpp#L346

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Xephyr
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Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:59 am

A couple more thoughts on MAG balance -

98R MAGs, I think, are too high level to be available in Commonwealth Fortresses. The 3K Siege MAG fills the same role and is better suited for the ungoverned territories, while the 98R is comparable to the M2 Vulcan and is good for the outer realm. (By the way, the 98R is a level below the M2 so it may be slightly overpowered).

The 800F is probably overpowered at its level (Level 5, same as white Strelka). I think the switch from blast fragments to kinetic is a good choice, but I would consider lowering its damage to 3d6 rather than 4d6.
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Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:55 am

@ George Moromisato: Thank you, that is useful.
Download and Play in 1.7 Beta...
Playership Drones v7 (Beta): Acquire and command almost any ship in Stars of the Pilgrim or Eternity Port.
Drake Technologies (Alpha): More hardware for combat in parts 1 and 2!
Star Castle Arcade: Relive classic arcade gaming in a new Transcendence adventure!
Godmode v3 (WIP): Dev/cheat tool compatible with D&O parts 1 or 2.

gunship256
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Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:15 am

A couple more quick observations:

Having engines display max speed and thrust and having the ship dockscreen correctly calculate thrust and turn rate are very helpful in deciding what upgrades to buy.

The agricultural mission is easier now that lasers can't do much damage to the station.

shanejfilomena
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Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:13 am

did anybody else die after buying Insurance or was it just me?
Flying Irresponsibly In Eridani......

I don't like to kill pirates in cold blood ..I do it.. but I don't like it..

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Xephyr
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Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:16 am

shanejfilomena wrote:did anybody else die after buying Insurance or was it just me?
There's a chance you won't respawn if there's no corporate stations in the system, or you'll never respawn if you're in huarmarca or elysium.
Project Renegade (Beta) : "The Poor Man's Corporate Command!"
"Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once. " -Julius Caesar as written by William Shakespeare, a notorious permadeath player.

relanat
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Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:31 am

Yay, thanks.
The new explosions are great. Especially the sparkly effects at the end of station explosions.

And I like that I can't just laser every station to death now. Always felt that wasn't quite right.

And the way the armor enhancements are displayed is excellent.

Thanks for all your hard work.

kay.py
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Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:15 am

This may already be noted, but the final Benedict mission is rather excessive with the rebalanced penitent weapons. Especially as a tutorial mission...

Is the Ministry of Records down at the moment? I wanted to check there before bringing it up, but just got a blank screen...

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