1.7 Beta 3

New releases and announcements from George and the staff.
george moromisato
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Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:30 am

1.7 Beta 3 is ready for download! If you've got Beta 2, it should automatically download the next time you run and sign in.

Otherwise, download here: https://kronosaur.com/downloads/TranscendenceNext.zip

This release is mostly bug fixes, but it does have the new code for continuous beams. See: https://ministry.kronosaur.com/record.hexm?id=61158

The list of fixes is here: https://ministry.kronosaur.com/program. ... sed&tag=73

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this release!

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TheLoneWolf
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Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:41 am

Cant believe it. 3hr ago I download Beta 2 and now this!

PM
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Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:46 pm

Mining laser with new beam physics is overpowered. It has twice its former range and ten times the shot speed.

Having only mining laser with new beam physics while all other laser weapons do not seems... weird, a bit inconsistent at the very least.

Continous lasers look good mostly with repeating weapons. Without repeating, new beams flash so quickly that it resembles flickering that may be a bit hard on the eyes (the sort that prompts flashing lights epilepsy warning).

Having continuousBeam to play with is nice, but it does not combine with some features very well. Passthrough does not work, and ray shapes other than straight do not look right. Some styles that do not combine well with straight, such as grainy, are problematic. Making smoky, glittery particle, or classic lightningBolt beams with continuousBeam is not possible at the moment.
Download and Play in 1.7 Beta...
Playership Drones v7 (Beta): Acquire and command almost any ship in Stars of the Pilgrim or Eternity Port.
Drake Technologies (Alpha): More hardware for combat in parts 1 and 2!
Star Castle Arcade: Relive classic arcade gaming in a new Transcendence adventure!
Godmode v3 (WIP): Dev/cheat tool compatible with D&O parts 1 or 2.

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Wolfy
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Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:21 pm

Nice george!
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Shrike
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Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:21 pm

PM wrote:Mining laser with new beam physics is overpowered. It has twice its former range and ten times the shot speed.

Having only mining laser with new beam physics while all other laser weapons do not seems... weird, a bit inconsistent at the very least.
On top of that, you can't fix this by reducing damage. Because you just had to buff damage on the mining laser to make it work properly with the damage thresholds that rocks now magically get.

And reducing rate of fire will make it useless as a mining system.

Without new beams, the mining laser is a powerful weapon in the early game. With them it is easily the most effective until damage resistance VS laser ramps up to the point where it can't do damage. And this is the single most difficult laser weapon to try to fix this on.

Again, I do not believe that major untested balance changes to a weapon were warranted this late in the 1.7 development cycle. As much as I do find myself liking the new effect, changes to ingame items should not have been made.
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PM
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Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:26 pm

He could reduce range to 20 (i.e., lifetime of 1), but it probably would not be enough. Shot speed is worth much once it goes much above 100. Old mining laser had range 30, new mining laser has range 60.
Download and Play in 1.7 Beta...
Playership Drones v7 (Beta): Acquire and command almost any ship in Stars of the Pilgrim or Eternity Port.
Drake Technologies (Alpha): More hardware for combat in parts 1 and 2!
Star Castle Arcade: Relive classic arcade gaming in a new Transcendence adventure!
Godmode v3 (WIP): Dev/cheat tool compatible with D&O parts 1 or 2.

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JohnBWatson
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Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:18 pm

Shrike wrote:
PM wrote:Mining laser with new beam physics is overpowered. It has twice its former range and ten times the shot speed.

Having only mining laser with new beam physics while all other laser weapons do not seems... weird, a bit inconsistent at the very least.
On top of that, you can't fix this by reducing damage. Because you just had to buff damage on the mining laser to make it work properly with the damage thresholds that rocks now magically get.

And reducing rate of fire will make it useless as a mining system.

Without new beams, the mining laser is a powerful weapon in the early game. With them it is easily the most effective until damage resistance VS laser ramps up to the point where it can't do damage. And this is the single most difficult laser weapon to try to fix this on.

Again, I do not believe that major untested balance changes to a weapon were warranted this late in the 1.7 development cycle. As much as I do find myself liking the new effect, changes to ingame items should not have been made.
A satisfying solution exists - just bring the range down to 20 and up the poweruse until it's balanced. The presence of reasonably affordable new mining technologies that don't require power mean that the mining laser need not be the entry - level mining item. It can just as easily be rebalanced to become viable a bit later on.

PM
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Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:54 pm

JohnBWatson wrote:A satisfying solution exists - just bring the range down to 20 and up the poweruse until it's balanced. The presence of reasonably affordable new mining technologies that don't require power mean that the mining laser need not be the entry - level mining item. It can just as easily be rebalanced to become viable a bit later on.
That is not enough. Even with range 20 and powerUse at 3 MW, balance calculations without cost adjustable is about +55.2. With -25 from high cost, that would still leave +30.2. Mining laser with new beam physics is overpowered at level 2.

As Shrike wrote, damage or fireRate cannot be nerfed without ruining its utility as a mining tool.

Unless George plans to convert all laser weapons to new beam physics, it is probably better to revert mining laser back to its previous version with 100 speed shots for 1.7, if its release is imminent.
Download and Play in 1.7 Beta...
Playership Drones v7 (Beta): Acquire and command almost any ship in Stars of the Pilgrim or Eternity Port.
Drake Technologies (Alpha): More hardware for combat in parts 1 and 2!
Star Castle Arcade: Relive classic arcade gaming in a new Transcendence adventure!
Godmode v3 (WIP): Dev/cheat tool compatible with D&O parts 1 or 2.

george moromisato
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Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:20 pm

PM wrote:Unless George plans to convert all laser weapons to new beam physics, it is probably better to revert mining laser back to its previous version with 100 speed shots for 1.7, if its release is imminent.
I'm OK with reverting. We do eventually want to convert all laser weapons to the new beam, but I agree with Shrike that we don't have time to balance properly before release.

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JohnBWatson
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Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:20 pm

I was thinking that poweruse could be even higher. Alternatively, a capacitator mechanic could be added, allowing it to mind asteroids effectively(as it recharges while the player moves between them) while being less useful in sustained combat.

PM
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Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:53 pm

I tried mining weapons with capacitors. In practice, the capacitor is empty most of the time while mining because there are so many rocks to shoot, and at high system levels, rocks hold lots of ore and have high damage thresholds (to the point you mine one or two tons at a time out of a hundred or so). Capacitors may work for combat, but not for serious mining. Mining is more tedious than most combat.
Download and Play in 1.7 Beta...
Playership Drones v7 (Beta): Acquire and command almost any ship in Stars of the Pilgrim or Eternity Port.
Drake Technologies (Alpha): More hardware for combat in parts 1 and 2!
Star Castle Arcade: Relive classic arcade gaming in a new Transcendence adventure!
Godmode v3 (WIP): Dev/cheat tool compatible with D&O parts 1 or 2.

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Shrike
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Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:14 am

george moromisato wrote:
PM wrote:Unless George plans to convert all laser weapons to new beam physics, it is probably better to revert mining laser back to its previous version with 100 speed shots for 1.7, if its release is imminent.
I'm OK with reverting. We do eventually want to convert all laser weapons to the new beam, but I agree with Shrike that we don't have time to balance properly before release.
If I might suggest a good place to put the new beam effects when it's time to test them (IE: Not now)? ICX and other point defense. It'll suit them perfectly with their really low default range (10ls detection range, IIRC), especially if you also upgrade their settings to only target active missiles. And because they're almost useless right now because of the flawed targeting and awful detection range, there's little danger of making things worse with them.
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PM
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Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:25 am

continuousBeam PD is very effective (at not missing). I tried them earlier today after updating some devices.
Download and Play in 1.7 Beta...
Playership Drones v7 (Beta): Acquire and command almost any ship in Stars of the Pilgrim or Eternity Port.
Drake Technologies (Alpha): More hardware for combat in parts 1 and 2!
Star Castle Arcade: Relive classic arcade gaming in a new Transcendence adventure!
Godmode v3 (WIP): Dev/cheat tool compatible with D&O parts 1 or 2.

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JohnBWatson
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Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:42 am

I like this idea, though it may run the risk of making the higher end PD weapon useless. It wouldn't be too hard to add a criteria(only tracking projectiles, only projectiles fired by an ammo weapon, only projectiles with < X health, only projectiles with > Y damage, ...) system for what they shoot at. Making them *not* lead their targets when the resulting direction is on the other side of the ship is trivial to implement and would be a huge improvement. Add those things to a feature that makes PD target only projectiles that are moving towards the ship they are mounted on(check for large discrepancy between direction of projectile and optimal direction of projectile if it is intended to hit the ship), and the non - hitscan PD we have now would be viable.

snafu
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Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:10 am

JohnBWatson wrote:only tracking projectiles, only projectiles fired by an ammo weapon, only projectiles with < X health, only projectiles with > Y damage, ...)
Is dmg sustained currently linked to <projectile> health, or is it simplistically using wep/projectile /type/?
Dom 8-)

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