Please don't make us play as a religious fanatic. I understand that you want Domina in the game and I don't mind that but making the player blindly follow that ruins the game for me. I would like you to allow/add other motivations or coercion in the plot.
The game seems to be getting worse and worse plot wise and I fear it will get to the point where I can't even play any more without getting disgusted.
player identity
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Betelgeuse
- Fleet Officer
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Crying is not a proper retort!
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speedofsquid
- Commonwealth Pilot
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So, previously you were just a casual pilgrim who kills thousands of people for mundane reasons?
I don't know....
I mean, I would definitely be 'religious' if there were 'deities' whose existence was so obvious as Domina's - I mean all those powers?!
Who wouldn't 'believe' in the existence of Domina, if they could literally ask for help and then, imagine, ACTUALLY GET IT? As opposed to our own 'deities', which - provided that they exist in the first place, which I'm definitely not entirely convinced - mainly go out with their own business (whatever that might be anyway) paying no attention to people, regardless of the length of their prayers.
Imagine, walking down some street in the middle of the night, when some gang surrounds you and draw their guns - and you just go 'Domina, SUSTAIN!!'
Now wouldn't that be awesome...
I mean, I would definitely be 'religious' if there were 'deities' whose existence was so obvious as Domina's - I mean all those powers?!
Who wouldn't 'believe' in the existence of Domina, if they could literally ask for help and then, imagine, ACTUALLY GET IT? As opposed to our own 'deities', which - provided that they exist in the first place, which I'm definitely not entirely convinced - mainly go out with their own business (whatever that might be anyway) paying no attention to people, regardless of the length of their prayers.
Imagine, walking down some street in the middle of the night, when some gang surrounds you and draw their guns - and you just go 'Domina, SUSTAIN!!'
Now wouldn't that be awesome...
Yeah, that little piece of backplot made me feel a little sick too. I perfer to be "The guy who was walking past the white house in the forest", not "The second coming of the dungeon master". Expecially in Transcendence, the player MUST have no backstory! In a non-openended game where there is only one goal, to get to the core, then this is appropriate. But in Transcendence, there are many things you can be, smuggler, pirate, gentleman, trader, intergalactic hobo, OR religious fanatic. I really don't like being defined in a game like Transcendence.
[schilcote] It doesn't have to be good, it just has to not be "wow is that the only thing you could think of" bad
I think the way the backstory is set up now it only works if the player is highly religious or possibly in the military. If you can imagine walking away from your wife and daughter in real life because of a religious calling or some other cause you can swallow the plot. Most people would tell Domina where to shove it because human relationships are more important to them than crusades. It's not even normal going away to war in the modern sense. You don't get rotated home. It's more like joining the French Foreign Legion. It's something you do because you've got nothing left but are squeamish about suicide.
I, unlike Betel, don't want Domina to get axed, but the protagonist really, really needs to be either a batchelor(ette) with no romantic entanglements or a widow(er) with no underage children.
I, unlike Betel, don't want Domina to get axed, but the protagonist really, really needs to be either a batchelor(ette) with no romantic entanglements or a widow(er) with no underage children.
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george moromisato
- Developer
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I'm very interested in feedback.
I don't see the player as a religious fanatic, and I would love to add some more plot elements/hints that make that clear.
The player is compelled by Domina to undertake the journey. He/she is *not* doing it out of free-will; rather, Domina has powers that are able to influence/control certain kinds of people. Why is Domina doing that? Why are only certain people susceptible? Obviously that's part of the mystery.
The character is a normal person placed in an unusual situation (a tried-and-true theme). Given that the character is compelled to reach Domina, he/she has the free-will to decide how best to accomplish that. The character is free to join the military or just be a trader, to kill everyone or not. The character is also free to *hate* Domina.
I don't know if that makes it better or worse, but it is one of the most important plot elements, so that part will not change. However, I am interested in how best to communicate those plot elements to the player.
[p.s.: I should emphasize that in no way does this backstory restrict your actions in the game. In fact, I think this backstory is perfect for an open-ended game. The only thing you are compelled to do is reach the Core (which is the same as saying that you are compelled to finish the game). Other than that, you have the free-will to do anything you want in the game.]
I don't see the player as a religious fanatic, and I would love to add some more plot elements/hints that make that clear.
The player is compelled by Domina to undertake the journey. He/she is *not* doing it out of free-will; rather, Domina has powers that are able to influence/control certain kinds of people. Why is Domina doing that? Why are only certain people susceptible? Obviously that's part of the mystery.
The character is a normal person placed in an unusual situation (a tried-and-true theme). Given that the character is compelled to reach Domina, he/she has the free-will to decide how best to accomplish that. The character is free to join the military or just be a trader, to kill everyone or not. The character is also free to *hate* Domina.
I don't know if that makes it better or worse, but it is one of the most important plot elements, so that part will not change. However, I am interested in how best to communicate those plot elements to the player.
[p.s.: I should emphasize that in no way does this backstory restrict your actions in the game. In fact, I think this backstory is perfect for an open-ended game. The only thing you are compelled to do is reach the Core (which is the same as saying that you are compelled to finish the game). Other than that, you have the free-will to do anything you want in the game.]
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Betelgeuse
- Fleet Officer
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hmm Domina should make the station disappear.
Something that I am thinking about is you start in the station (not saying if your family it there but if the player wishes they could think that) and it disappears and Domina starts talking to you about your quest. The next thing you know you are back to normal with only your ship. The station no where to be found.
I think this way you are free to be a "chosen" or to hate Domina. It also allows for more none feeling based motives like explorers or traders or scientists (a chance to trade with or study Domina would be very cool)
what do people think of this?
Something that I am thinking about is you start in the station (not saying if your family it there but if the player wishes they could think that) and it disappears and Domina starts talking to you about your quest. The next thing you know you are back to normal with only your ship. The station no where to be found.
I think this way you are free to be a "chosen" or to hate Domina. It also allows for more none feeling based motives like explorers or traders or scientists (a chance to trade with or study Domina would be very cool)
what do people think of this?
Crying is not a proper retort!
I really don't think that's a good idea. Everyone in the thread who has mentioned the new story elements hates them. More hints won't help. It's the adding of hints that caused the problem in the first place. If Domina is evil make it explicit, and if Domina isn't supposed to be evil take out the moral problems with Domina's choice of pawns. These hints just leave people feeling creepy. Make the child a young adult / older teen and the charachter a widow(er) if you must have someone crying.
The thing about the normal person in unusual situation theme is that if they have any attachments they're allmost always trying to get home.
The thing about the normal person in unusual situation theme is that if they have any attachments they're allmost always trying to get home.
Hmmm... That is a plot twist that I like, although it will have to be more clear that the player is doing this without his/her consent. Perhaps the player should be clearly physically prevented from doing certain things, like returning to Eridani or entering his/her home.george moromisato wrote:I'm very interested in feedback.
The player is compelled by Domina to undertake the journey. He/she is *not* doing it out of free-will; rather, Domina has powers that are able to influence/control certain kinds of people. Why is Domina doing that? Why are only certain people susceptible? Obviously that's part of the mystery.
The character is also free to *hate* Domina.
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Betelgeuse
- Fleet Officer
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I want to make one thing clear I will not like anything that has Domina controlling the player through anything other than external actions. Oddbob thinks that what you said implies you are being controlled directly by Domina (through ideas implanted in you mind)george moromisato wrote:I'm very interested in feedback.
I don't see the player as a religious fanatic, and I would love to add some more plot elements/hints that make that clear.
The player is compelled by Domina to undertake the journey. He/she is *not* doing it out of free-will; rather, Domina has powers that are able to influence/control certain kinds of people. Why is Domina doing that? Why are only certain people susceptible? Obviously that's part of the mystery.
The character is a normal person placed in an unusual situation (a tried-and-true theme). Given that the character is compelled to reach Domina, he/she has the free-will to decide how best to accomplish that. The character is free to join the military or just be a trader, to kill everyone or not. The character is also free to *hate* Domina.
I don't know if that makes it better or worse, but it is one of the most important plot elements, so that part will not change. However, I am interested in how best to communicate those plot elements to the player.
[p.s.: I should emphasize that in no way does this backstory restrict your actions in the game. In fact, I think this backstory is perfect for an open-ended game. The only thing you are compelled to do is reach the Core (which is the same as saying that you are compelled to finish the game). Other than that, you have the free-will to do anything you want in the game.]
Is this what you meant?
Crying is not a proper retort!
Clarification: I interpreted it as Domina putting an idea in your mind, a compulsion - I define a compulsion as an impulse (NOT a desire) to do something - it could be to stick your hand in a fire, it doesn't have to be rational , nor does it need to be something that you want to do.
And so the player can agree with domina, in which case the idea becomes a good thing, to urge the player onward or hate Domina, in which case the player is compelled to go coreward (or otherwise face the mental consequences, i.e. going crazy) but doesn't have to like it and may even actively seek to subvert it (example going to the core, but with the intent to destroy or otherwise defy Domina)
And so the player can agree with domina, in which case the idea becomes a good thing, to urge the player onward or hate Domina, in which case the player is compelled to go coreward (or otherwise face the mental consequences, i.e. going crazy) but doesn't have to like it and may even actively seek to subvert it (example going to the core, but with the intent to destroy or otherwise defy Domina)
NetHack does have a background story, which you can simply neglect however.schilcote wrote:Yeah, that little piece of backplot made me feel a little sick too. I perfer to be "The guy who was walking past the white house in the forest", not "The second coming of the dungeon master". Expecially in Transcendence, the player MUST have no backstory! In a non-openended game where there is only one goal, to get to the core, then this is appropriate. But in Transcendence, there are many things you can be, smuggler, pirate, gentleman, trader, intergalactic hobo, OR religious fanatic. I really don't like being defined in a game like Transcendence.
"Yes... But War does not preserve its enemies."
So are most, if not all, rogulike games. Personally I liked the story of IVAN (Iter Vehemens ad Necem).
If you really hate that background story, you could always mod it out, or better yet, destroy the station!
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Betelgeuse
- Fleet Officer
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- Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:31 am
a couple options that came up on irc are
make a sandbox or non story mode that way people who don't like the story don't have to play it. This has the problem of allow you to ignore any criticism by just just saying if you don't like it play the sandbox mode.
if you could get the player invested in the in game player it would be more inclined to go along with whatever you decide to do. Like you could move the domina thing to St. K that way the player would already be invested in the in game character so they would be more accepting of it.
make a sandbox or non story mode that way people who don't like the story don't have to play it. This has the problem of allow you to ignore any criticism by just just saying if you don't like it play the sandbox mode.
if you could get the player invested in the in game player it would be more inclined to go along with whatever you decide to do. Like you could move the domina thing to St. K that way the player would already be invested in the in game character so they would be more accepting of it.
Crying is not a proper retort!