Archived versions?

[Karl]

Nice! And that's a pretty good file hosting site, too; it doesn't have a "wait to download" time delay like many of them do.

__________

EDIT: And it looks like there's still a few things archived in the Transcandence downloads folder on Neurohack.com. Here's the source for Transcendence 0.9 (the oldest file I could find on there):

http://www.neurohack.com/downloads/Trans09Source.zip

Unfortunately, it doesn't work with the current version of the game engine without significant tweaking, and the full version of Transcendence v0.9 doesn't seem to be available for download anymore.

[goat not sheep]

B ut I really want to try 0.7...

[Yugi]

Trying old versions out is actually pretty boring. Within a few minutes of playing everything seems rubbish compared to the latest version and you just stop playing.
That's what happens with me, at least.

[goat not sheep]

It's different for me, though.

[Fossaman]

I figure that some things have gotten worse, but some things have gotten better. There was a simplicity to some of the older versions that's lacking in the new ones, and it seems like at least some of that 'on the frontier, all alone, no help in sight' feeling should be brought back in some areas.

[Karl]

There was a simplicity to some of the older versions that's lacking in the new ones....

That seems to be a problem with alot of games as they evolve. There is a tendency to keep adding more and more complexity... and complexity doesn't necessarily make things better; it just makes them more complex. In fact sometimes, as you said, adding more complexity ruins the simplicity and straightforwardness of the original game.

Master of Orion is the perfect example of this. Master of Orion 1 and 2 were awesome and among the best games ever made. But 3 is just a mess of pointless, tedius detail.

However, I don't think that Transcendence is suffering from overcomplexity... at least not yet. From what I've seen, it looks to be getting much better with every version, with cool new features being added and the game engine itself being continually improved. In fact, the only thing that I can think of off the top of my head that's gotten pointlessly complex, IMHO, is the fuel system. Now there are more fuels, which is just more boring grunt items to juggle.

I figure that some things have gotten worse, but some things have gotten better.

That sounds rather negative to me, like the game is just on a treadmill and isn't getting better at all. Do you really mean it like that? And what, exactly, is lacking in the new versions, other then a sense of being all alone on the cold frontier? (Which, by the way, seems like an easy enough thing to fix... just add more "frontier" systems where friendly bases are very limited.)

[Fossaman]

I can't actually point to that many things that have gotten worse.

Not off the top of my head, anyway.

There are a few 'artifacts' in the late game that are now absurdly easy, like the Xenophobes. They used to be the terror of any self-respecting pilot. I kinda wish they still were.

There was a lot to be said for not having a reactor take up a device slot.

I can say unequivocally that this version of transcendence is superior to all the others; but it can be made better, possibly with some stuff from old versions.

[OddBob]

Personally, I LIKE complexity, and I'm fine (and like) all the new stuff.

However, I realize that everyone doesn't, and there's a good solution for everyone: a sort of hidden complexity. Those who take advantage of the complexity can have a richer experience (or not), but you can still play without it.

A perfect example is Nethack, as George mentions on his site. Yes, Transcendence Is Not Nethack (TINNH?), but it's a good comparison, so hear it out. You can sit down and play Nethack and have perfectly good fun killing stuff and not have THE slightest clue what you are doing. Or you can use all the complex stuff and have a surprisingly deep (ha!) experience.

Elements of this sort of thing are in Transcendence already, take the titanium barricades for example. That's something that you don't ever have to use, indeed, may never have occasion to use, but it is there, and you can if you want to.

Take armor coatings as well: they're handy, but it takes a lot of experimentation to find them. If you don't like it, it's totally cool not to use them, you won't even miss out like you will if you decide not to use a shield.

Or say:
If there was something added that was suggested a long time ago: power management, where you have little sliders you can push around to put more power to weapons or shields: that adds a lot of complexity, possibly a whole range of items, shops and whatnot. But if you make it optionally computer controlled (basically it leaves it at default and shuts down power when overloaded, exactly like now), then players can still jump in and play. When they're comfortable, they can mess with it. If they're never comfortable, they don't have to.

[Karl]

I was just thinking that we need to make a distinction between complexity and depth. Adding more stuff that you don't have to use, but can choose to use if you want, adds depth. Adding more stuff that you HAVE to use to get through the game (or just to play effectively) adds complexity.

[dvlenk6]

I enjoy the absurdly complex games: Wizardry and Ultima series, for example. But they are different kinds of games.

Transcendence seems to be on the boderline between a shoot-em-up game and an RPG. RPGs need complexity to be interesting, shooters don't; the action keeps them going. Ideally, IMO, there should be a mixture of elements from the two genres. I feel that there is a bias towards the shooter genre right now, because of the huge numbers of enemies; but the game is still in a somewhat early development stage.

EDIT - Lords of Magic was greatly diminished by it's simplification vs. it's predecessor: Master of Magic. I was so disappointed by the over simpification of LOM.

[Karl]

Whoa: Master of Magic is by the maker of Master of Orion, Steve Barcia! How did I miss that game? (Especially since he seems to like putting "master" in the title of his games. )

Lords of Magic wasn't designed by Steve Barcia so I bet that's why it's weak in comparison. Same thing with Master of Orion 3... what were they thinking making a sequal without the designer of the original game? No wonder 3 sucked.

[Frits]

I have a link to here and to the main pages on the mod site (which is currently down damn it)
If someone could send the previous versions to:
citizenthom @ gmail.com
then that would be great

Is Thom still around? Or only sometimes maybe..?
When i go to his modsite i'm being redirected to a german (.de) address, instead of the belgian (.be) i thought i was supposed to arrive at.
I want to download version 0.97a, the last version i'm positive is bugless. That is was bugless on the then-used OS which has now changed. By e-mail is fine as well, thanks.

[Yugi]

Download 0.97a here.

[Frits]

Refreshed that?! thx