[George] Where do shots of ammoless matter guns come from?

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PM
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Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:12 am

For weapons like recoilless cannon, slam cannon, and tritium cannon; where do the shots come from? Does the ship fabricate the ammo out of nothing? Does the weapon hold so much ammo that it is assumed the player always has enough until the ship docks at a station for a refill? Is the ammo mostly energy but has a little mass to give the shot some power? I guess some of the matter weapons are ammoless for playability reasons.
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Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:20 am

Accelerating 1g to .5c requires 13.9 * 10^12 J. Weapon powers are rated in 10^6 joules per second. While applying real physics to transcendence is something of a futile exercise, the used fuel spent to fire the ammo would provide more than enough mass.

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Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:40 am

PM wrote:I guess some of the matter weapons are ammoless for playability reasons.
That. Plus I'd say the ammoless ones are assumed to just use 'common stuff' that is small, easily stored, and rather ubiquitous, so its abstracted away (but done retroactively, because they were made ammoless for gameplay to start with)
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LordSutekh
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Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:22 am

I had read a review of Trans a while back where the reviewer said that the ammo was generated from the reactor. Which would work for plasma weapons- not so much for fissionable thermonuclear weapons. I had always assumed that most ammo was cheap and plentiful, like Wolfy said. But you are playing a game about flying around in a spaceship guided by a psychic alien that lives in the center of the galaxy. Let's not look too closely or there's a lot of stuff that won't make sense.

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Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:38 pm

I ask the question because I made custom matter weapons (for Items912) similar to those in standard. If there is no serious explaination (other than a metagame reason), I may make my weapons ammo munchers or remove them altogether (the next time I update Items912).
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Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:50 pm

I like to completely not think about it, declaring the state to be for gameplay purposes.
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Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:32 pm

My rule for creating ammo weapons is only if the ammo is somehow "special"- ie tracking ability, or fragmenting in some special way. But mostly it comes down to gameplay. Do you make the weapon worth having to scrounge for ammo, or is it just 'cause it makes sense?

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Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:58 pm

PM wrote:For weapons like recoilless cannon, slam cannon, and tritium cannon; where do the shots come from? Does the ship fabricate the ammo out of nothing? Does the weapon hold so much ammo that it is assumed the player always has enough until the ship docks at a station for a refill? Is the ammo mostly energy but has a little mass to give the shot some power? I guess some of the matter weapons are ammoless for playability reasons.
Playability was my main consideration. [Though if I could make ammo weapons more viable, there would be more of them.]

For kinetic weapons, where the bullets are light and inert, I assume that the ship can carry a sufficient supply. (20,000 rounds is probably more than most players ever shoot of one kinetic weapon. Since most of the damage comes from speed, we might assume that each bullet is about a gram; even if 10 grams or more, 20,000 rounds would easily fit in the mass of a multi-ton device.)

For blast weapons, I think the simplest explanation (though it cannot be examined too closely) is that the device fabricates the ammo out of easily available components (carbonaceous rocks, basic metals, etc.)

Thermonuclear weapons are the same as blast weapons but come with a supply of radioactive materials. It's probably not insane to think that a themo weapons has a built-in fission reactor for breeding plutonium. [For fusion weapons the raw material is hydrogen/helium, probably boosted into tritium via energy inputs.]

Plasma weapons do not need much mass since the individual charged particles have so much energy.

Nano weapons can easily create their own bullets.

Singularity weapons create mini-black holes.

Dark matter weapons are sufficiently advanced to be explainable by almost any logic you want.

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Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:10 pm

What weapons would fire these one gram masses? Light (and/or heavier) recoilless cannon? Flensers? Any of the other standard kinetic weapons?
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Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:31 pm

PM wrote:What weapons would fire these one gram masses? Light (and/or heavier) recoilless cannon? Flensers? Any of the other standard kinetic weapons?
Basically, every single Kinetic "ammoless" weapon come from....those asteroids you se... or the metal junk. Anything will do, as long as it can be turned into a do-able ammo...

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Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:37 am

ronelm2000 wrote:Basically, every single Kinetic "ammoless" weapon come from...
Heavier recoilless cannons firing the same one gram masses for more damage than lighter recoilless cannons, without increasing shot speed? I don't think so.
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Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:41 pm

Can we just settle this with "For gameplay reasons, George disregarded realistic physics" and leave it at that?
Surely that would be easier than trying to invent excuses for it working IRL?
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Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:05 pm

It would be nice to know which weapons fire sub-kilogram shots, and those that fire heavier shots. If the shot is heavy enough, it would make sense for the weapon to use ammo, playability issues aside. I look at the AK15/RK15, and see that they fire the non-tracking equivalent of the 10 kg SmartCannon round.
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Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:31 pm

PM wrote:... I look at the AK15/RK15, and see that they fire the non-tracking equivalent of the 10 kg SmartCannon round.
Not quite - Most of the mass of the SmartCannon shell can be excused as propellant. The AK15 Partisan also fires a slightly slower projectile (.4 c versus .5 c) than the SmartCannon.
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Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:20 am

PM wrote:It would be nice to know which weapons fire sub-kilogram shots, and those that fire heavier shots. If the shot is heavy enough, it would make sense for the weapon to use ammo, playability issues aside. I look at the AK15/RK15, and see that they fire the non-tracking equivalent of the 10 kg SmartCannon round.
If you insist on bringing realism into this, it takes 450 terajoules to make a 1 kg mass go .4c. The largest mass weapon takes what? 350MW? I forget what the real to game time conversion is, but that's well over a week of charge time. If these are actually supposed to be relativistic weapons, try the milligram range, not kilogram.

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