What exactly do the Ranx want for the Ferians?

[JohnBWatson]

We know that the Ranx consider the Ringers' use of Ferians to be slavery. That being said, what do they intend to do about it?

The Ferians operate without Ringer supervision, and the Ringers do not really have any ships of their own with which to fight off Ranx encroachments. Thus, the Ranx could, within reason, do whatever they want with most Ferian hives without any significant retribution, so long as they do not provoke the Warriors.

However, they cannot simply go in and liberate the Ferians. Being Zoanthropes genetically engineered to serve the Ringers, they cannot exactly be expected to begin living as free entities. While presumably they could function better by selling their products on the free market rather than to the Ringers exclusively, there does not seem to be anything forcing them not to do this on their own, implying the Ringers have some manner of psychological or biological control over them that cannot be broken by force. However, this must be in some way limited, as the Ferians do not use their powerful Warrior vessels to directly attack the Ringers' enemies without provocation. (Of course, the Ringers may just be hiding their ability to do precisely that to keep the lucrative CW military contracts rolling in, or to keep their more powerful enemies from wiping the Ferians out entirely)

Assuming the Ferians could simply be told of the better business model and immediately implement it, telling them how to carry it out would be quite kind of the Ranx. It would also, however, reduce them to political and economic irrelevance. A 'liberated' Ferian race would still be out-competing the Ranx as miners, perhaps moreso due to the fact that they could sell to the Commonwealth directly, cutting out the middleman. They might also begin selling to the Ares, encroaching on what is presently a Ranx - exclusive market.

An alternative solution to the dilemma presented is to uplift the Ferians to full sapience. This would presumably do away with their status as a threat to the Ranx, given that any specialization related to mining could also be done away with. In addition to the benefits of removing competition, assimilating the newly uplifted Ferians would vastly increase the Ranx population, strengthening their economy and military immensely. However, there are two problems presented here. The first is that the process would require the consent of the Ferians, as abducting them all would be prohibitively costly in both lives and material. As non - sapient beings, it seems unlikely that they would have any strong desire for sapience. The second is that the procedure itself would be impossibly expensive to perform on every Ferian in existence, as the Dwarg, the only other faction to make use of this technology, reserves it for converting exceptional thralls into masters. Even if every uplifted Ferian received the surgery of their own accord and joined the Ranx as a productive citizen immediately thereafter, it may not be enough to recuperate the cost of surgery.

The only other possible intent would be destruction of the Ferians, which is feasibly within their power to do and would be to their extreme economic and political advantage, with the end of Ringer supplied petranacium effectively destroying the Commonwealth's ability to wage war. However, as their justification for war with the Ringers depends on considering the Ferians as humans, or at least deserving of the same basic rights, this would be very hard to justify morally. They could feasibly frame it as a mercy killing of the victims of Ringer genetic engineering, but as there is no reason to believe that they are in any way not content with their way of life(indeed, many Zoanthropes are said to have converted willingly, though not with the intent of being used as servants, soldiers, or workers) this would test the limits of what propaganda is capable of.

The most obvious(and currently gameplay - supported) explanation is that the Ranx government doesn't really care about the Ferians and is just using their 'exploitation' as a means of justifying war with the Ringers, who, fan theories aside, have generally shown themselves to be a peaceful and ethical people. This works well enough, but raises the question of why their citizens haven't looked into this. In addition, without a clear solution to the issue of Ferians taking their land and resources, the Ranx gain nothing from fighting the Ringers in the first place. Even if they completely wipe out the Ringer population, they would effectively be faced with a now - uncontrolled horde of biological von - neumann machines that grow in number by mining up the ore that the Ranx economy needs in order to survive.

[PM]

The simplest solution for an angry and greedy empire is extermination; that is, kill all the Ferian "bug people".

[Ultimate Chicken]

For some reason I don't get the impression of the Ranx being anti-alien/posthuman.

The Ranx are former miners who have had part of their society put down tools and pick up shipbuilding and arms. Possibly they just want to annex Ferian mining patches like China annexing Tibet - for the "defense"* effort and all that. They've only just started doing this what with the recent change in government to a more warlike one and all.

This will work weather you want to make the Ferians truly independent trade partners of the Rinconomy, or enslaved by the Ringers. The story will proceed like this - at the time of the player's visit, the Ranx have just begun taking over...

(For this to work, they'll have to attack these races as well, aside from Ferian and Ringer/Teraton: Urak - another society who was created under the same circumstances but started their intrusion efforts earlier, Outlaw Miner, Legit Corporate Miner, EDIT: Gaians and Salvagers "stop stealing our stuff")

[Atarlost]

However, as their justification for war with the Ringers depends on considering the Ferians as humans, or at least deserving of the same basic rights, this would be very hard to justify morally.

No it isn't. There are two branches to the anti-slavery argument. There is the argument for the slave, which you recognize. There is also the argument of economics: Slavery in an economy is worse than slavery in a vacuum because it forces competitors to engage in equally unethical practices.

Only the latter really applies to zooanthrope slavery. They aren't people. PETA talks about the slavery of domesticated animals, but most people consider this not unethical and the comparison an insult to actual human slaves, slave descendants, and abolitionists. The slavery of zooanthropes would not be a crime outside the economic context any more than the slavery of horses is to most observers, but the creation of zooanthropes is probably still in the top ten greatest crimes in human history, maybe the top five. The slavery of zooanthropes in an economic context compels the Ranx to either exterminate them or their keepers or create their own zooanthropes if they can or die out themselves.

The Ringers are like a necromancer running a business based on zombie labor in a standard kitchen sink fantasy setting. The Ranx are like the actual human beings (and elves and dwarves and hobbitsalflings and half-dragon were-hamsters) who were in the business before a necromancer came and stole their livelihoods by creating laborers who don't ask for pay. The Ferians are like the zombies. What do you think is going to happen?

[Song]

Actually a large faction of the commonwealth really doesn't like that the Dwarf exploit the zoanthropes. Because while they're modded humans, they are still humans. It turns up in a Parliament or militia scene, IIRC.



In terms of the Ranx though.....I think their wishes for the Ferians might not even matter at the time of SOTP Part I. The Ranx formed quite a powerful republic, which then became a totalitarian dictatorship (the Empire we see ingame). A civil war may be on the cards if Wolfy ever turns up long enough for ORE to happen ( ). I think it's moved more from "This is immoral and should be stopped" to "These are our enemies and a threat to our wonderful and flawless totalitarian dream we've got going here".



In terms of their original goals......who knows?

[JohnBWatson]

No it isn't. There are two branches to the anti-slavery argument. There is the argument for the slave, which you recognize. There is also the argument of economics: Slavery in an economy is worse than slavery in a vacuum because it forces competitors to engage in equally unethical practices.

I'd thought of that, actually. As former miners(generally treated as the counterpart to low - skilled workers in sci-fi) they may consider the Ferians to be, in effect, biological automation. Under this understanding, it would make moral sense to destroy them, as they are non - sapient beings whose existence does harm to sapient beings. The quasi - environmentalist argument also holds - they are an inefficient use of a finite resource, which, with humans and neo - humans stuck in the QZ rather than in possession of effectively infinite systems, holds potentially extreme future consequences.

Only the latter really applies to zooanthrope slavery. They aren't people. PETA talks about the slavery of domesticated animals, but most people consider this not unethical and the comparison an insult to actual human slaves, slave descendants, and abolitionists.

Again a good point. The counterargument would be that the Zoanthropes who converted willingly did so under the belief that they would be free, but this does not apply to artificially created Zoanthropes like the Ferians, which were never human, only those fielded by the Dwarg.

The slavery of zooanthropes would not be a crime outside the economic context any more than the slavery of horses is to most observers, but the creation of zooanthropes is probably still in the top ten greatest crimes in human history, maybe the top five. The slavery of zooanthropes in an economic context compels the Ranx to either exterminate them or their keepers or create their own zooanthropes if they can or die out themselves.

How would the creation of the Zoanthropes be a crime? Some converted willingly, seeking out a simpler life for themselves. So long as various factions enforce their own property rights and keep others' Zoanthropes(and independent ones) away from their resources, their existence is no more harmful to anyone than the existence of any other non - human animal. Yes, it puts some workers out of a job, but so has every technological innovation since the dawn of time, and it is generally accepted that the improvements in standards of living are sufficient to outweigh this.

In addition, from a utilitarian standpoint, creating a self - reproducing swarm of beings that can feel nothing but satisfaction and fulfillment is a godsend.

The Ringers are like a necromancer running a business based on zombie labor in a standard kitchen sink fantasy setting. The Ranx are like the actual human beings (and elves and dwarves and hobbitsalflings and half-dragon were-hamsters) who were in the business before a necromancer came and stole their livelihoods by creating laborers who don't ask for pay. The Ferians are like the zombies. What do you think is going to happen?

I recall a screenshot from the other side of this. A DM had the final boss be running a zombie labor company with the intent of liberating humanity from the harsh medieval lifestyle, and turned around the idea that such a thing had to be evil.

It could be said that they are unethical for effectively taking a monopoly on the market with their new technology, but considering that they don't have any advantages that the rest of humanity didn't simply choose not to take, and that the Ranx's brethren in the Commonwealth are the ones choosing not to outlaw this practice, it's hard to argue the unfairness here.

The Sapiens might claim that the existence of more modified humans fielding more advanced technology is by nature harmful to less altered humans, but the peaceful existence of free Zoanthropes proves that there is no reason that beings who have chosen a simpler lifestyle are existentially threatened by those that have chosen advancement.

[JohnBWatson]

Actually a large faction of the commonwealth really doesn't like that the Dwarf exploit the zoanthropes. Because while they're modded humans, they are still humans. It turns up in a Parliament or militia scene, IIRC.

IIRC that was ambiguous. The senator could have been using the threat of Dwarg to support their case for helping Zoanthropes, but they also could have been seeking solely to weaken the Dwarg(one of the most dangerous factions in the region) and using an appeal to emotion for the "zoanthrope brethren" to appeal to a tiny minority of PETA - esque groups because they're a politician and there's no reason not to give a group of voters that would support their policy a shout out.

Ultimately, killing sentient beings is worse than mistreating non - sentient beings by most standards of morality, so I think that's the issue most people have with the Dwarg.

In terms of the Ranx though.....I think their wishes for the Ferians might not even matter at the time of SOTP Part I. The Ranx formed quite a powerful republic, which then became a totalitarian dictatorship (the Empire we see ingame). A civil war may be on the cards if Wolfy ever turns up long enough for ORE to happen ( ). I think it's moved more from "This is immoral and should be stopped" to "These are our enemies and a threat to our wonderful and flawless totalitarian dream we've got going here".

I'd say something similar. Initially, the Ranx didn't like the Ringers outcompeting them and isolating them from the Commonwealth's support that they desperately needed. Now, anything the government says about it is probably going to be nothing more than agitprop to distract from the tyranny of their own society and their war with the Commonwealth.

[masaruta4at]

I think so
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