[1.0RC1] Unknown Device remaining unknown

[bimbel]

I have this rhomboid-shaped device that I bought as unknown. Installed it but it reamained unknown. Not usable nor does it have any effect on any weapon. At least I didn't notice any.

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/325335/transc.jpg

Bug or intention?

[Aury]

I assume you're referring to this?

[12:15] <bmbl> So now with more users I have this unknown rhomboid-shaped device
[12:15] <bmbl> I installed it and it is still a rhomboid-shaped device (noone knows what it does...)
[12:15] <bmbl> Is that a bug or may this be correct?
[12:15] <Gambit-> it's a whoopy cushion.
[12:15] <Schilcote> Really?

I posted about this quote in the main RC1 thread too.
I'm pretty sure though that it's a bug, since once you install something, it used to get known.

[Atarlost]

I found a laser etched devices with the same problem. I'm assuming it's a cannon accelerator because I haven't found any, and haven't use a kinetic weapon.

Grep on the decompiled tdb indicates laser etched can only be unknowndevice2 and unknowndevice2 is only used by the laser colimnator and cannon accelerator, and I found and identified the former.

[george moromisato]

The current behavior is as designed [whether or not the design is good remains to be seen.]

Any device enhancer (like laser collimator or kinetic accelerator) will continue to show up as unknown if it has no effect on an installed weapon. [If you later install a weapon that it affects, then it will become known.]

I think this will make things more interesting:

1. In the future, there will be more device enhancers in the game (including some that are very specific to a particular weapon).

2. In the future, some device enhancers may be damaged, meaning that they would degrate your weapon.

3. In the future, there will be more ways to identify a device.

Interested in feedback, as always.

[Aury]

Other than direct experimentation, I think there should always be an alternate way for identification. (IE buying Rowena ROM's or some ID device or an ID service)

Also, anything ordered through a trading post or analogous merchant should be auto-ID'd

[Atarlost]

I'm against unidentified anything in stores. A real shop would not be able to charge full price for something unless they told you what it was. You should either be getting unidentified hardware at bargain basement pawnshop prices or be told in advance what you're considering buying.

[Aury]

I'm against unidentified anything in stores. A real shop would not be able to charge full price for something unless they told you what it was. You should either be getting unidentified hardware at bargain basement pawnshop prices or be told in advance what you're considering buying.

I don't happen to remember off hand but I thought you get unknown items discounted?

[Atarlost]

They shouldn't just be discounted. The only reason for the store not to tellyou what they're selling is if they don't know either. Price should be taken solely from the unknowntype, and it should be the sort of prices a tinker sells broken stuff for. They're trying to get you to pay money for a completely unknown device, and if it's unknown they also can't know it's not damaged in some subtle way. For alien stuff the exoticness might overwhelm the fact that neither of you know what it is, but for anything human made if you don't know what it is it's just junk.

[Song]

I have to agree with that...

Just imagine me *actually* going into one of these shops:

Shrike: Hi generic salesman NPC!
Generic Salesman: Greetings! Do you want to buy any of our stock?
Shrike: Depends.....what have you got?
Generic Salesman: We don't know.
Shrike: You don't know?
Generic Salesman: We don't know.
Shrike: You don't......know?
Generic Salesman: We don't know.
Shrike: Let me get this straight.....YOU, that is, YOU....are trying to sell ME, as in, ME......an item that you don't have ANY idea as to the identity thereof....FOR THAT MANY CREDITS?
Generic Salesman: That is correct, yes. Now, do you want to buy this device?
Shrike: Not until I know what it is.
Generic Salesman: But we don't *know* what it is.
Shrike: WHY?!!
Generic Salesman: We don't know...
Shrike: And why don't you...y'know...uh...*ask your smegging suppliers*?
Generic Salesman: Uh.....
Shrike: And what's this thing over here?
Generic Salesman: We don-
Shrike: ARRRRRRRRRRGH!!!

it just doesn't make sense....if I owned a shop that selled any kind of device, I'd make damned sure I knew what everything was, just so it wasn't liable to explode randomly......

it would make sense from wrecks or scrap merchants, however.......

[Aury]

I think that mainstream products in a mainstream store should all be identified.
Less mainstream places can get away with ambiguity...
Black market places... well, hey, what do you expect?

[Atarlost]

But they still wouldn't be able to charge very much.

[Aury]

But they still wouldn't be able to charge very much.

Yeah. that's true

[Prophet]

I just bought an Unknown Alien device from Adventure Outfitters for 118K creds.
(I knew it was a jumpdrive but still...)

I can appreciate that the salesman was thinking:

Salesman: I've got a one of-a-kind Alien thing-a-ma-jig here. If you want it, you will PAY THROUGH THE NOSE"
ME: Hmmm, human tech vs ancient super being tech.... I don't know what it is or if it's useful but it's worth a shot! I'll take it.
Salesman: Really? Alright, here's your unknown alien device...

Alright, so I dropped a fat wad and bought my jumpdrive, run back to St K's and get it installed undock and test it out.

The problem is, it's STILL UNKNOWN.

Personally, I don't think you should be able to install something until it is known. How do you know if it's not damaged. How do you install something if you don't know what it is? I think there should be a "Identify" service on some stations with a level cap that you must use before it's able to be installed. I also agree that some shops should not sell identified items.

Stations that could/should sell unknowns:
Trading post
Generic CW stations (they're not specialized, rather like a department store with punk teenagers running the checkouts )
Tinkers (they know it's broken, but not what it's supposed to do)
Black Market (they would tell you they knew what it was)
Tinkers/Ringers (They know but they might not tell you)


Regardless, I'd still like to point out that my jumpdrive is still unknown and I've already used it...

[F50]

How they know to install and sell alien tech that they don't know much about:


1. Its an engine. We disected it and couldn't figure out what it was. We did find the power intake, so we conected it. It went right through the station wall and vented us into space. Yes, we're ringers, we can survive that kind of thing. Anyways, it took us a week to chase it down. So yes, we are quite sure its an engine. However, no one wants to start that thing up again so we haven't got benchmarks for how fast it'll go. Its faster than anything else we've got though, so it'll cost you several thousand rins.

2. Its a...well we don't really know. However, due to our knowledge of other alien tech, we know that this button activates it, and these wires are power and ground respeectively. We haven't got around to testing it because of the engine incident (and we're not sure if we really want to anyways). It must be important though...

3. It has a barrel, so is must be a weapon of some kind. Thankfully, those aliens are pretty consistent about labeling their circuitry, so we can install it for you if you want...for a price.

[Atarlost]

That only applies to alien stuff

And there should be a chance any alien device is busted.