Weapons Extended 4

Post about your finished mods here.
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digdug
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Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:23 am

Hi CosmicKobal,
Keep in mind that you are going to experience crashes at this point.
I'm waiting for 1.07 to update the mod, that would fix all the crashes.

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Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:51 am

Just out of curiosity, is there a reason that the zip file is still titled 612_WeaponsExtended3.zip (with emphasis on the "3")?
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WillyTheSquid
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Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:20 pm

Hey. Started playing Transcendence this month (huge time-sink, to be sure). Combining some mods and making them compatible. Adding some stuff, leaving other things out. Personalizing the game to my own specifications. Have been especially enjoying TheLastBrunnenG's weapons/armor/shields mods.

So, I just got started on Weapons Extended 4, but it's just too much. I have no idea which vanilla content is overridden (and thus which other mods it could clash with). A readme would be great. Just breaking down which .xml file overwrites what vanilla content.

Just as important: a modular system for installing parts of this mod would be REALLY appreciated. I've seen others do it, so I guess I'm spoiled somewhat.

WE4 really really needs documentation -- I'm leery of installing the whole thing when I have no idea what it will do to the mods I've already installed and am currently satisfied with.

Specifically, then: will this break the "400+ weapons mod"? I really don't want to do without my launcher-mounted positron cannons etc.
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WillyTheSquid
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:13 pm

Well, I decided to give the whole shebang a shot, anyway. BIG improvement over the weapon choices in vanilla Transcendence. Weapons seem well-balanced. Early game is definitely more fun.

There was one Sapphire in the Arena that I was not able to lay a finger on, even though I was packing serious firepower and scoring a LOT of hits. Turned on the targeter, and the Sapphire's shield was filling up from 4% to full within a second. Eventually I died because I ran out of fuel. Figured I would just come back later with even bigger guns. But for a 200 credit opponent in the arena? WHAT.
I'm thinking it's got to be one of those Lazarus-light style shields getting tossed into the enemy randomizer.

Then I met the new and 'improved' Corsairs in Charon. I had five different weapons (burst laser, gatling laser, rapid-fire kinetic, particle and blast) and none of them really worked. I was dealing staggering amounts of damage per second (killing Drake missileships and Charon Frigates in seconds). Not the Corsairs, though. Hell no.
New groups of Corsairs/Vikings were spawning while I was still trying to pick off the nigh-invulnerable stragglers from the last group. Ended up with a dozen or so invulnerable Corsairs on my tail, chasing my poor slow-ass freighter around Charon. I was enjoying WE4 right up until that point.

Shields that charge back to full within a second...
...on fast-moving enemies that circle around you constantly...
...and that are impossible to outrun...
...and spawn way faster than you can kill them...
...is just silly.

Would hate to have to turn off the enemy randomizer, it really adds spice to new playthroughs. But if this is what the rest of the game is going to be like, the randomizer is getting switched off in the very near future.

It can't be just me. I love a challenge, I love balanced gameplay. I like the Lazarus-light shields, but not so much that I'm gonna let them ruin the game for me. If there's no way to prevent enemies from spawning with them, I'm going to remove those shields from the game.

edit It's actually several different types of shield giving me trouble. Need to look into this. Some enemies just don't take ANY damage. Guess it's a case of a certain shield appearing before the damage types that can eat through it quickly enough. Temptation to re-install the non-missile launcher weapons is growing... easy way to double DPS :P
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:26 pm

Yeah, that can happen sometimes. What weapons did you have? I recently went through Charon the other day and I had a blue particle cannon, and no trouble there. I was also the first time I saved Charon, although I think it's because they ran right through the sun.... (the sun does damage in Dynamic Systems)
Some shields have immense resistances to specific weapon types, which is why you should always bring at least TWO weapons to any battle. Recently I have an omni dual mark I howitzer and a blue particle cannon, so now I can kill dwargs (they're starting to show up now D: ) with the howitzer and swat the wind slavers with the particle cannon.
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Atarlost
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:16 pm

There are a couple shields you could be running into that are only numerically balanced based on shields not used by the AI in the vanilla game. They're perfectly fine when lots of enemies are shooting at you, but may have issues when one of you is shooting at lots of enemies.

It sounds like you're describing the Light Trenton and Vincible-class.

The Vincible probably needs an exception to prevent it appearing on swarmy ships. The best weapon against it is probably something in the AK500 series with an enhancer device. That should frequently drop it from full in one shot and the victim should be disabled for long enough to get off another shot at a sitting duck. It should also be vulnerable to a good omni if you have a targeting rom to keep your shots on the same target. On a slower ship you could just pound away.

The Light Trenton regenerates quickly, but should be letting damage through. Combined with good armor the bleedthrough might get eaten by roundoff error I suppose. It might make sense to increase the transparency a bit more at the bottom of the curve.

There's also the Rapid Cycle Shield, but it can't have 4% hitpoints because it only has 12 hitpoints max.
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alterecco
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:18 pm

WE4 contains a list of items that should not go on enemies. Perhaps dig into the code yourself, or maybe digdug will update it for you. In any case they sound like quite good suggestions.
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Atarlost
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:18 pm

alterecco wrote:WE4 contains a list of items that should not go on enemies. Perhaps dig into the code yourself, or maybe digdug will update it for you. In any case they sound like quite good suggestions.
It would be nice if Xelerus had a good way to handle multi-contributor mods. Right now if I want to do maintenance on the stuff I did for WE I need to pass it to digdug and wait for him to update. And a lot of the bugs seem to be my fault. (Verloren Hoop being triggered by station defenders destroying the stations they're supposed to be defending and the OP's shield problem, some straight up bugginess with a one class of missile launchers that I hadn't noticed when I did the WE conversion)
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alterecco
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:10 pm

Multi contributor mods should be on github or bitbucket or something similar. That would make everything much easier. I don't think bmbl will be making big changes to xelerus (we don't really see him much these days)
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digdug
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:34 pm

Would hate to have to turn off the enemy randomizer, it really adds spice to new playthroughs. But if this is what the rest of the game is going to be like, the randomizer is getting switched off in the very near future.

It can't be just me. I love a challenge, I love balanced gameplay. I like the Lazarus-light shields, but not so much that I'm gonna let them ruin the game for me. If there's no way to prevent enemies from spawning with them, I'm going to remove those shields from the game.
this is definitely something to fix. Thanks for the playthrough, I love balanced gameplay too. As you can imagine, with 1000+ devices from multiple contributors is not so easy to keep everything balanced.

I suppose that small fast ships should not be allowed to have lazarus-type shields, as they are mostly designed for the player.

[EDIT]
In general, WE4 is much easier than previous versions. WE2 for example made the game much harder than vanilla due to how the weapons were installed.
If you have real troubles dealing with the mod, you can choose the difficulty :D Change the difficulty to "Easy mode". All new systems entered will be much easier. You can change the difficulty at any time ingame.
alterecco Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:10 pm

Multi contributor mods should be on github
Indeed, I was actually thinking about that. I suppose I'll register to github right away :D


[EDIT]
Some shields have immense resistances to specific weapon types, which is why you should always bring at least TWO weapons to any battle.
During my gameplays, I tend to stick to missiles as secondary weapons, and install howitzers later in game to deal with ships with unusual resistances. In particular missiles allow the player to access thermo damage very early ingame.

Use ROMs and enchancers all the time. Even a petty dual laser can be quite powerful if you install a laser collimator and +Fast rom.
Instead of having 5 weapons, try to stick to 2-3 max. All that you need is a main blaster for fast ships and a basecracker.

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alterecco
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:37 pm

digdug wrote:I suppose I'll register to github right away :D
Cool, let me know if you need any help getting set up. I think Ttech and Wolfy can help as well. I recommend using TortoiseGit unless you feel adventurous and want to use the console.
Here is a short guide to using git from the command line. Note that you will have to add the directory where you have your git executables to your path first. http://rogerdudler.github.com/git-guide/
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:12 pm

I posted WE on GitHub ! :D
A big thank you to alterecco for the step by step help ! :D

https://github.com/digdug34/Weapons-Extended

latest ZIP version of WE is here (ONLY XML, NEEDS IMAGES)
https://github.com/digdug34/Weapons-Ext ... all/master

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Atarlost
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:39 pm

Alright. I'm putting my fixes into a fork until digdug's done with his thesis.
https://github.com/Atarlost/Weapons-Ext ... all/master

At the moment this just has the Northwind update. There are some balance changes within that and the new weapons with variants, and the Verloren Hoop problem should be fixed. AI ships should no longer trigger it if they're within range of friendly stations. I'll take a look at the other problem shields in a bit.
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WillyTheSquid
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Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:24 am

I ended up starting a new game; managed to get hold of a Bushido Hard X-Ray Laser + Collimator and a Single Particle Lancer in Rigel. Especially that last one really did a number on those Corsairs (2 hit kills on shielded), but if I hadn't found that one specific weapon, I would've run into the same problem.

Found a bug. When I kill some enemy stations (specifically, Ranx Outpost and Death Drug Cartel so far), a large 'revenge' group of Corsairs/Vikings always spawns. Even beyond Point Juno. Don't think that's intended? It's never happened to me before installing WE4.

Think I'm stuck now, by the way. Not a money thing, got a new personal record (900k credits). Just can't kill off the weaker enemies (Ranx Gunships but especially Luminous Drones & Ares Sandstorms) quickly enough before I get slaughtered. They just keep coming and coming. The bases themselves die in seconds to the Plasma Cannon I grabbed off of a Ferian Warrior wreck I came across... but even my level IX Positron Cannon doesn't seem to be able to put a dent in those annoying small enemies. ARGH.

I manage to do OK by abusing the hell out of the Domina powers, but I'm not having much fun anymore. Those random shields are annoying the hell out of me. Escort or base defense missions are basically unwinnable on a reliable basis: the swarmer-type enemies can be so resilient (and with powerful weapon variants to boot) that they easily kill superfreighters (or Point Juno, for that matter) before I manage to shoot them down. Since you boosted the enemies a lot, it seems logical to me that you need to toughen up the NPC freighters and Point Juno. I don't mind taking longer to crack these tougher swarmers, but I just don't have the time to take them out before they destroy my mission objectives. If I'm unlucky, a single enemy can take longer to kill than 20 of the vanilla ones. Meanwhile, new swarmer enemies keep joining the fight...

(Okay, ONE mission failure was entirely my own fault... hit the superfreighter with a blast from the plasma cannon. Sayonara...)
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Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:39 am

WillyTheSquid wrote:When I kill some enemy stations (specifically, Ranx Outpost and Death Drug Cartel so far), a large 'revenge' group of Corsairs/Vikings always spawns.
Did you download Dynamic Systems? I recall that there are retaliation groups for Ranx, but corsairs or vikings aren't supposed to spawn to avenge the Cartel or the Ranx :/

What is your setup? If you're still sticking to particle damage weapons, you have to upgrade. You're at a point where you need ion or thermo weapons to stay competitive. There is a damage setup in Trancendence where the higher level armors and weapons have an intrinsic advantage over lower tiered weapons. (so 1 million laser damage is inferior to 25 plasma damage)
For armor, get the highest level available, preferably octocarbide or evenithalium will do.

As for the NPC ships, I recall that all ships are randomized.
(Okay, ONE mission failure was entirely my own fault... hit the superfreighter with a blast from the plasma cannon. Sayonara...)
Yeah, I hate it when that happens too :(
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