Heretic defense systems

[Yugi]

I think it's strange that the Iocrym ship in the Heretic system is the only thing defending the stargate. There should other defence systems.

One idea could be an invisible (and very strong) shield surrounding the inactive stargate. Anything touching the shield could be teleported (like the transpace jumpdrive) to somewhere else in the system. The player would need to attack the shield until it fails and shuts off, and then they can activate and enter the stargate.

Another possibility could be an escape ship that flees from the command ship just before you destroy it. This new ship can then attack and possibly destroy you while you are trying to get the above idea's shield down.

I think these ideas would add more fun and difficulty to the game, whilst also expanding that particular part of the game.

[F50]

I agree (though perhaps not with those ideas). The ship itself should be stronger too.

[Betelgeuse]

I would like to see a fake gate that just puts you somewhere else in that system. Sort of a red herring to slow down people. (this would be more just for general high level systems)

[F50]

I don't think a fake gate that simply delayed the player would help in the Heritic system. What about having the Iocrym Command Ship be a carrier (it *is* a command ship after all), thus spawning several Iocrym gunships (or autons. Anyways there should be an infinite number avaliable). Also I suggest a higher turning rate or side guns on the Iocrym Command Ship. The player shoulod not be able to jump to Heritic with a Yori MX, Duralloy armor, QAC, and an ICX with a reasonable chance of success. I think that the Iocrym Command Ship and its backup should put up such a fight that the player would not even think about facing the Iocrym without a really good shield (and possibly other weapons than the QAC to deal with the fighters).

[Betelgeuse]

thats why I sudgested it for general high level systems.
I am against making Heritic harder because you basicly have to take certain things to beat the game and making it harder would just make that problem worse.

[SparcMan]

What about the Hero factor? You are, in effect, the hero of the game and normally, the hero can prevail over incredible odds. Now I'm no hero with super reflexes or tactical abilities, but I still want to get the sense of being a hero from the game (meaning it should be easier than what is realistic).

[Czert]

What about the Hero factor? You are, in effect, the hero of the game and normally, the hero can prevail over incredible odds.

Yes, hero - for a price of many deaths/loads.
In reality, graveyard are full of heroes.
Im remember Cannon Fooder -screen with hills and crosses(your dead heroes), and best causalty counting im ever seen - home : away.

Anybody know (or made) remake of this great game ?

[SparcMan]

I don't quite buy that rationale but anyways, as to your question:
Cannon Fodder
Cannon Fodder 2

[Guest]

>I am against making Heritic harder because you basicly have to take certain >things to beat the game and making it harder would just make that problem >worse.

ICX is needed or the Ranx will kill you.
Yori MX or better is needed or the Ranx will kill you(or the sung or the Ares or the Heliotropes).
QAC will always be needed.
you won't make it far at all without >30 hp armor!!

you need to take certain things to survive anyways. Point Juno should be easier than Heritic!

[Betelgeuse]

I am against any specific thing being needed. You do not really need the icx to get through Ranx space there are other ways of avoiding there shots.

I don't mind having some kind of shield because you can try out different kinds. And if you want to try you can even get quite far without one. This game is about experimentation try different things out.

QAC will always be needed.

That statement is just a statement on how much the QAC needs to be removed. No item should be depended on (that you have to get it) in this game. I don't understand how some people argue that having a certain station is wrong or having a weapon class that they are not a fan of but they don't seem to mind that you have to have a certain item and that everyone uses it.

you need to take certain things to survive anyways.

Where else in the game do you need certain things to survive? I can't see any others. While early game is better than late game in terms of variety they don't require you to have a certain item.

(p.s. I also don't like guest posting I don't know who I am arguing with. I would like to bring thier positions into it.)

[Guest]

There have been several discussions on having multiple ICX types, and I agree so that really isn't the problem. The QAC then, is the *only* gripe w/ Heritic requiring specific items and it only has to do with the Iocym's defenses, not its weapon. So making the Iocrym stronger with its weapons does not effect this one thing (and the weapon suggested won't deal with the ICX anyways), only the shield generator and thrusters. So I fail to see your problem with making the Iocrym more powerful. You should not be able to face Heritic as soon as you do your the med missions at the CSCs (QAC should be obtained by now, jumpdrive (to jump to Heritic) from the med mission, Yori MX and ICX is almost garanteed by now.). The player should have to have equipment that is only availiable post Point Juno

[Betelgeuse]

I also disagree with the warping to the last system. It just makes it a grab items and warp skipping a third of the game. I don't think the problem is the Iocrym it is the warping. The Iocrym is already hard enough. It is the overpowered things like the ICX and the QAC that need to be weakened.

Even with multiple ICX types the problem is still there with a basically required item. If its one weapon didn't mean instant death unshielded you could even fight the boss without shield.

Basically I hate what the boss has become. Even in .8 it wasn't bad but now its making all the players into clones of each other. While that is fine for other games it goes directly against what Transcendence is.

I would be more than happy to see lots of extra stuff in the heretic system if the one disintegrator was taken away from the boss. (I think more weapons will be added to fight him so that is not so much a problem)

[Guest]

So, assuming that one did not use the jump drive(agreed that its overpowered), how would you change the boss so that different people could have different strategies concerning the boss and his escorts?

It is the overpowered things like the ICX and the QAC that need to be weakened.

There are two ways to weaken the effect of an item.

A: reduce the power of the item(eg. decrease ICX accuracy, QAC damage, shield hp. etc.).
B: increase the strength of an enemy. For instance, add extra (otherwise useless) weapons to distract ICX, Increase resistance to the QAC, increase the damage enemy weapons do (weakens shields/armor). etc.

To me, ICX doesn't seem to be overpowered outside of Heritic since it only effects certain weapons so I would think B would be ideal for the ICX.
However, I am not so experienced with the QAC outside of Heritic so I can't really argue that as a reasonable person.

I think that the boss can be made harder, IF, as you say, It promotes player-to-player variation tacticly and does not have any single piece of required equipment. I know I have said this, but I do believe that the boss should be tougher than any previous enemy.

[Betelgeuse]

the problem with the stregthening the boss vs the ICX is that it uses a instant kill tracking weapon. If it didn't track and it had distractions for the icx it would work better because it weaken the ICX while not making it a death wish to go there without it.

As for making it harder I think make the plasma balls faster and give the boss a omni plasma cannon while taking off the traking on the disintegrator would be a good start. I would like other things in that system maybe lots of wrecks showing the previous people trying to run the blockade. Maybe some turrets around the gates would be good too.

[OddBob]

So, assuming that one did not use the jump drive(agreed that its overpowered), how would you change the boss so that different people could have different strategies concerning the boss and his escorts?

I agree with removing disintigration and/or making it not track. It makes armor even more worthless than it is already. I know many people just run or escape when their shields go down, and don't use armor at all. The shields-required in the last system (even though it is the last system) sort of reinforce this.

I do like the accelerating, tracking projectiles, though, so I'd suggest making the QD still track, but not disintigrate, and add a new, non tracking weapon that does.

If there were a lot of wrecks, discarded materials and the like around the gate, then you could take cover behind them, but the with every shot, you'd probably lose some cover to disintigration.

And what I'd really do is remove that super-shield from the Iocrym, or replace it with the Veil again. That would allow players with other weapons to defeat it.

I'm for it not having a shield at all. If it doesn't repair too fast, then you can whittle it down a bit at a time, while avoiding the main gun, dodging in and out of cover to avoid the QD shots and whatever other omni armament it has. As is, you have to pour on so much fire to get that shield down that only those few weapons are good for it, and don't even think about trying to dodge anything (that's why ICX is required), because if you stop firing, the shield goes right back up. If you're just working in the armour, you can use pretty much whatever you want