Collision on particlejet particles (or the option for it)

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Song
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Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:48 pm

Currently, the particles emitted from a particlejet (eg. Weapon exhaust) striking a solid object will pass right through it. This results in odd-looking weapons where most of the effect will hit the target, but the fancy comet trail will not. Being able to specify that a particlejet should detect an object (and then either vanish or spray out like the Ferian Plasma Cannon effects) would allow for much better looking weapon effects.
ParticleStream.png
ParticleStream.png (65.68 KiB) Viewed 1261 times
Example of current behaviour. This the Positron Lancer, as modified by SM&M++. The previous beam has hit the wreck of the ICS, and stopped, with hit effects. The particlejet 'tail' has continued through the wreck, and looks somewhat odd.
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JohnBWatson
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Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:51 pm

It's worth noting that things like missile exhaust should, according to the laws of physics, be moving in the opposite direction of the missile. I think this problem may have resulted from a missing *= -1 somewhere in the code.

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Song
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Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:47 am

JohnBWatson wrote:It's worth noting that things like missile exhaust should, according to the laws of physics, be moving in the opposite direction of the missile. I think this problem may have resulted from a missing *= -1 somewhere in the code.
Particlejets aren't always missile exhaust: it's a graphical effect in the engine that can be used for a LOT of things (Eg: THe jets of steam and flame that come off a damaged ship? Particlejets. The trails of...stuff....behind fragments from a station explosion? Particlejets. And then there's weapons usage). The velocity is specified by the code: it's not tied to the speed of the parent. In this case, the idea is to make a design similar to a comet tail: A fast projectile with a slower trail coming off it. This is a really common thing in vanilla: the default thermo effects are basically like this. personally I use it to soften the quite harsh effects of the shaped bolt that the positron lancer uses as its projectile. It may not make physical sense, but we're already talking about energy weapons with visible beams, and nuclear weapons that are better than a kinetic weapon. Real world physics take a back seat to satisfying weapon mechanics.



Also from experience, exhaust that immediately shoots behind the playership is *very* hard to get to look good. Usually it looks really bad.
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JohnBWatson
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Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:18 am

Shrike wrote:
Particlejets aren't always missile exhaust: it's a graphical effect in the engine that can be used for a LOT of things (Eg: THe jets of steam and flame that come off a damaged ship? Particlejets. The trails of...stuff....behind fragments from a station explosion? Particlejets. And then there's weapons usage).
Right. None of those would move forward with relation to the parent object's direction, however.
The velocity is specified by the code: it's not tied to the speed of the parent. In this case, the idea is to make a design similar to a comet tail: A fast projectile with a slower trail coming off it.


A realistic comet tail would be achieved by the particles not moving and fading out/shrinking with time.
This is a really common thing in vanilla: the default thermo effects are basically like this. personally I use it to soften the quite harsh effects of the shaped bolt that the positron lancer uses as its projectile. It may not make physical sense, but we're already talking about energy weapons with visible beams, and nuclear weapons that are better than a kinetic weapon. Real world physics take a back seat to satisfying weapon mechanics.
Couldn't a similar effect be achieved by keeping the exhaust static? I'm not experienced with trail effects, that's a genuine question.
Also from experience, exhaust that immediately shoots behind the playership is *very* hard to get to look good. Usually it looks really bad.
I've seen it done well. The rate at which visible exhaust would move backwards is quite low, which is why most games use static exhaust, which would also be a viable option.

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Song
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Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:23 am

.....Yes, it's possible. You set the velocity to equal that of the projectile, it then emits backwards at that speed, cancelling the net velocity (although it retains the velocity of the ship that's firing it). In vanilla, this is done by the Thermo Cannon. In Sm&M++, it's done by the APA, and in TSB it's done by some of the railguns. But it's ultimately a creative decision. And since vanilla effects use it in a way that triggers annoying graphical problems, collision detection is still pretty important.


Even if it wasn't, having static missile trails splash out a bit when you flew through them could be quite nice.
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JohnBWatson
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Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:26 am

Even if it wasn't, having static missile trails splash out a bit when you flew through them could be quite nice.
That would be quite cool. If it wouldn't cause too much lag, I'd like to see that ingame.

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Atarlost
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Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:08 pm

JohnBWatson wrote:A realistic comet tail would be achieved by the particles not moving and fading out/shrinking with time.
A realistic comet tail would have the particles starting with velocity matching the projectile and accelerating away from the origin of the solar wind or whatever substitutes for it in creating a pseudocometary tail.
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sun1404
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Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:15 am

Comet tails won't stay still. They're dislodged from the comet, not fired backward at equal velocity. They'll have about the same velocity as the comet, but won't turn with the same acceleration, and so making a trail leading out from the comet's orbit's center.
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Song
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Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:34 pm

Fascinating though the discussion of comet tails is, it's completely irrelevant to the topic of the thread. Likewise missile exhaust dynamics. It's a request for an addition to the particle effect system.
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JohnBWatson
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Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:38 pm

Shrike wrote:Fascinating though the discussion of comet tails is, it's completely irrelevant to the topic of the thread. Likewise missile exhaust dynamics. It's a request for an addition to the particle effect system.
On that topic, I've been noticing all manner of strange glitches with particle effects. Haven't been able to make much sense of them, but there's a post on ministry for it, and if you can figure out what's causing the problems improving the system might become easier.

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