Damage 2.0 Idea thread

Post ideas & suggestions you have pertaining to the game here.
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Wolfy
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Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:27 pm

NOTE! THREAD RULES:
Try to post ideas and provide suggestions, but please stay on topic. If you feel the need to tell someone their suggestion is wrong, just suggest something else instead. Don't quote them, don't debate with them, at least not in this thread.




Transcendence as it currently stands could almost be seen as having 2 damage types: Energy and Matter - as you progress through the game, it merely cycles through 8 tiers (only 4 of which feature substantially in Part 1)

It's honestly a near-complete waste of a gameplay-mechanic, because the forced-upgrade cycle is already easily achieved through so many other options (such as lacking the DPS to easily chew through high level armor), while at the same time restricting the creativity of what modders can do. It would require a complete balance overhaul, but I believe it would be worth it and would allow for forming many more weapon archetypes and more room to be creative.

Furthermore, there are all sorts of issues with weapons and damage in general with things like fragments, WMD balance, internal HP on large ships, the weakness of Stations, weapons that are OP against the player but utterly useless in the players hands, and so on.



Have to get going right now but I intend to post some ideas later on possible alternatives.
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Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:02 pm

So, the practical difference between matter and energy is that matter collides with everything and energy only collides with matter. From what I gather, you want to add some additional variation to this to break up a perceived cycle. More diverse weaponry would certainly help the game, especially considering its connections to the roguelike genre, and might add the spark of difficulty and surprise that keeps the learning curve from leveling out too quickly over successive playthroughs. Thus, varying the ways in which damage types interact with each other could improve gameplay. Here's a possible list of interactions that might be applied to projectiles to implement this change:

Laser: Can damage blast and thermonuclear weaponry on impact, but does no damage to any other projectiles.

Kinetic: Blocks energy weapons up to ion while taking no damage, and deals damage to matter weapons that it impacts.

Particle: Collides with and damages blast and thermonuclear weaponry. Takes damage from touching ion weapon fire.

Blast: Deals some degree of area damage on impact(calculated simply with a radius check, to prevent lag), but is damaged by every type of weapons fire. Deals area damage if destroyed midflight, but to a lesser degree. All missile and mine weaponry should be treated as blast damage type while inflight.

Ion: Has a chance of passing through projectiles it collides with.

Thermonuclear: Takes no damage from kinetic weapon fire, and damages all non - laser non - particle projectiles within a certain radius. In addition, this radius damages unshielded armors with low thermo resist.

Plasma: Deals extreme damage to all other projectiles that come into contact with it. Cannot be damaged by anything other than antimatter. Armor hit by plasma weaponry cannot be repaired for a few seconds.

Positron: Collides with everything, does very little damage to other projectiles, and has very little health.

Antimatter: Collides with everything, destroys everything other than the below two damage types on contact, has very little health. Has a blast radius on impact or destruction.

Dark Acid: Collides with none of the above projectile types. Pierces shields, and ignores the protective Domina powers.

Dark Steel: Collides with all damagetypes shown above save for Dark Acid, and destroys everything it comes into contact with.

These tweaks, combined with the existing customization possibilities, would give every weapon type its own unique 'feel', and help to alleviate the necessity of switching damagetypes as you progress through the game. Kinetic weapons, for example, would be as reliable as one might expect a several pound lead shell to be, which would give them merit as defensive armament, and blast weapons, while powerful, would be much more vulnerable to being shot down.

Armor is another part of this equation. High level armors are virtually immune to low level weaponry, even when they have no logical reason to be. It's logical for the Iocrym armor to be capable of shrugging off low tier weaponry, and the Xenophobes have good reason to gear their heavier vessels towards immunity to simpler armament, given their lack of shipyards to repair. However, in most cases, armor should not have the innate resistances it does. An alloy made from conventional materials should not be able to take no damage from being hit by a block of steel moving at relativistic speeds. A heavier armor or a more advanced ceramic plate could lessen the damage, but a mass produced gunship armor like that of the Sandstorm should not. Blast plate is another example of armor that is quite a bit stronger than it should be, making players who buy it all but invincible in the early game due to its massive resilience against kinetic and laser weaponry despite its purpose as anti - missile armor.

Fixing this is fairly difficult, but for a start, here are some things I think would improve the current system:

At present, shields feel fairly balanced to me. Their energy drain could be lowered to make them less unusable in the early game, but aside from that I've got no complaints. It's really armor that's bringing about the current issues.

Firstly, matter weapons should have damage negation capped at 75% for conventional armors. (as a general statement, level <10 armors that aren't explicitly immune) For example, if a 20 damage slug hits a CSC armored with P1000 Hexphase, it should deal, at minimum, 5 damage. This prevents unrealistic damage curves and helps with the balance problems mentioned in the OP.

Energy - based weapons are more realistically resistible. From the dialogue in game, they seem to be built to be on the cutting edge, and suffer when they cease to be so. Luminous is vulnerable to simple energy weapons, as it rarely encounters them in quantities that would threaten it, and thus doesn't plan to defend against them. Most other factions, up until the endgame, feature regular engagement with laser and particle armed enemies, and it thus makes sense to defend against their weaponry, especially considering a simple coating can be much more effective against energy weapons than against matter weapons. That said, it might be worthwhile to decrease energy resistance as damage is incurred, in keeping with the laws of physics and how they impact heat absorption. A smooth ablative armor is going to keep off much more laser damage than the same armor with its interior partially exposed and its coating roughed up.

Finally, onto the subject of stations and internal HP.

Internal HP is effectively the interior of a ship, and is thus pure health, with no resistance, but there's a lot of it so potential for mass destruction makes a difference. I recall someone saying that WMD should go from a cut to damage to a multiplier, and I'd think that would be fairly balanced. It's at least worth trying.

On the subject of stations, it's hard to really tell how survivable they're supposed to be. Most of their defenses, at present, come from ships, and I'd like to keep it that way simply because it's more fun and more realistically viable. However, they are indeed a bit too easy to destroy. It's fairly simple to make this better without too much work:

First, large stations of all kinds should have some degree of self - repair capabilities.

Secondly, guards are currently far too lax. They should never dock at stations below 50% health, and continue orbiting until they repair. In addition, their pursuit radius should be pared up significantly, and repeat offenders should be pursued with increased zeal.

Thirdly, large stations should have some kind of hanger bay, given that the Huygens was able to fit a squadron of Centurions. I'd say giving CW metropolises 5 Centurions as an emergency defense force(and armored stations 10) would be a decent start.

If anyone has questions about this, feel free to PM me. I'm in my programming mind, so things might not be very eloquent legible.

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Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:19 pm

You could say we have 2 damage types, each with 4 tiers. And yes, we could indeed do without the tiers.

However, if we are going to brainstorm damage types, I would argue that we should have 4 damage types:
  • Electromagnetic beams : laser, mazer, phaser, etc. All of them work at the speed of light and transfer energy in the form of photons.
  • Particle beams : photons, electrons, muons, etc. Typically they work at almost the speed of light and transfer energy in the forms high-energy (charged) particles.
  • Kinetic : Bullets, shrapnel, etc. Typically a lot slower than the speed of light*, projectiles transfer kinetic energy.
  • Explosions : exploding warheads, thermonuclear incidents, etc. Typically delivered by a projectile or missile and causes damage by a rapid and uncontrolled release of energy.
While the kinetic and explosive damage types are slower than the beamy ones, they have the advantage of being able to combine those two damage types in a single weapon (an exploding bullet does both explosive and shrapnel (=kinetic) damage to a target.

(Alternatively, you could argue that the above is really two weapon types: beam and projectile, each with 2 types of damage.)

I think the above 4 types could be the basis for a lot of interesting weapons, the archetypes of which already have a solid place in the universe of Transcendence:
- lasers,
- (particle) blaster,
- auto-cannons,
- howitzers and kiloton cannons,
- missiles and rockets.

I think I would welcome this change, although it is (superficially seen) a huge change from what we currently have.

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*) if you speed up a kinetic projectile up to near light speed velocities, things turn out quite spectacular (see also Relativistic Weapons), but I think they have no place in transcendence; then again, maybe they do.
Last edited by pixelfck on Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:01 pm

There's definitely room to differentiate damage types by what they do: Lasers heat, kinetics punch through stuff, blast...um....blows stuff up, ion has loads of effects already (albiet two of them stop you doing damage), and particle IRL has the possibility of bremsstrahlung (braking radiation. AKA: "Why you don't use aluminium to stop beta radiation even though the textbook at high school says it works that way").
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Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:08 am

I've always been a fan of the damage curve used in The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind. It scales indefinitely unlike systems where you block a percentage of the damage, and you don't really have to worry about capping the damage negation.
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Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:48 am

 Weapons aren’t my strong suit by any stretch of the imagination, but here’s a handful of things I’ve thought at various times in regards to damage types:
» Kinetic — I’ve always felt this should basically be like what generic damage currently is: Nothing either vulnerable or resistant to it. I’ve particularly always rather thought that immunity to kinetic damage is rather silly. I mean, if you hit a planet with an asteroid, you get extinction events; if you hit a Xenophobe Defender with an asteroid, they just say, “Did you hear something?” Granted, anything capable of being particularly threatening to capships should probably be ammo-based.
» Particle — If anything should have passthrough, it should be particle. High-energy particles tend to go right through a good many materials, after all. Optionally, any additional hits done by one particle beam/projectile could do interior damage to anything with internal HP.
» Thermo — It may seem like overkill, but a thermonuclear explosion should carry at least a risk of irradiating anything it hits (excepting, of course, anything with radiation immunity). That’s kind of what nukes are known for, after all.
» Positron — This differentiation has always puzzled me, what with positrons being particles and all. Alternately, I would have merged it with antimatter.
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Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:42 am

Weapon effects is something I forgot to go into. Thermo weaponry should certainly irradiate targets it hits. Passthrough weaponry ought to always deal internal damage after the first hit.

In addition, ionizing weapons should have their ionization chance start out low and gradually increase as the segment they hit loses health. It's a bit odd that critical systems can be disabled by a hit to fully intact armor just as easily as they can when the armor's half destroyed. Ditto EMP weaponry.

The DOT effect from A More Dangerous Universe would fit the penitent cannons well.

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Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:37 am

I'd kind of like to see a component system.

The base damage types would be something like
  • Radiation*
  • Charged Particles (CP)
  • Neutral Particles (NP)
  • Kinetic
  • Shock
  • Antimatter
  • Exotic
  • Psionic
Weapons would have composite damage lines. Each damage type gets its resistance and shield opacity checked independently but if the first type is completely blocked by a shield all types without a new independent modifier are blocked (they damage the shield, but any damage that would pass on to armor is discarded).

Human shields should usually not be 100% opaque to anything except CP and shock and and almost all shields should be shock antimatter immune. Alien shields can be 100% opaque to anything, but should still only be immune to shock and antimatter. Any shields should typically be around 90-95% opaque to most types but should not more than 50% transparent to one of radiation, NP, and kinetic; two of the three for civilian human shields. Anything with higher opacity against NP should have high or complete opacity to CP.

Armor should typically be very vulnerable to antimatter and weak against either shock or CP. Unless armor is very exotic its resistance to NP should be proportional to its mass independent of level. Armor should typically have 100% opacity to everything but shock and psionic.

Internal structure should have its own resistance table, possibly a few levels such as tbStructureCivilian, tbStructureMilitary, tbStructureAlien1 and so forth. Internal structure should always be very (more than double damage even for the halo races and core minds) weak to shock and antimatter. Ships with no internal structure ignore any damage that bypasses armor.

Lasers are radiation with small shock.
Kinetics are generally kinetic but something big like the ballista might have a little shock and the flenser might have a little NP
Blast is kinetic with shock and most of the damage in the shock.
Particle beams are charged or neutral particles. CP tend to be more damaging and have radiation and/or irradiate but easier to shield against.
Ion weapons are CP with independent NP to reflect that heavier charged particles are harder to shield against than light charged particles. Assuming we're talking about pretty heavy ions at least. Helium would fall under CP and heavier stuff would have proportionately more NP. Really big ions at high enough velocities would get &exotic.
Nukes are kinetic with independent radiation, CP, and NP with shock for direct hits and radiation with independent CP and NP for fragments.
Positron weapons are antimatter with CP.
Plasma comes out as NP with independent CP and radiation. It's kind of a fake damage type since nukes also mostly deal damage through plasma.
Antimatter weapons are antimatter with NP.
Nano would be kinetic with something nasty in <ondamagearmor> and/or <ondamageinternal>.
Graviton weapons are shock with shield bypass in <ondamageshields>.
Singularity could be exotic with shock either with a high shield damage modifier on the exotic or independent on the shock.
The dark types use psionic combined with various things.

There's a bit of tiering. NP is better than CP at passing shields and stuff with exotic or psionic is better than stuff without. Kinetic&shock stuff eventually stops working well against alien shields.

Current blast and positron become capship finishers. Thermo and plasma become anti-capship as well, but more versatile. Antimatter becomes a very strong capship killer. Other types tend to be for dropping shields, but for any shield there are types that cut straight through it.
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Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:50 am

Atarlost wrote:I'd kind of like to see a component system.

The base damage types would be something like
  • Radiation*
  • Charged Particles (CP)
  • Neutral Particles (NP)
  • Kinetic
  • Shock
  • Antimatter
  • Exotic
  • Psionic
Weapons would have composite damage lines. Each damage type gets its resistance and shield opacity checked independently but if the first type is completely blocked by a shield all types without a new independent modifier are blocked (they damage the shield, but any damage that would pass on to armor is discarded).

Human shields should usually not be 100% opaque to anything except CP and shock and and almost all shields should be shock antimatter immune. Alien shields can be 100% opaque to anything, but should still only be immune to shock and antimatter. Any shields should typically be around 90-95% opaque to most types but should not more than 50% transparent to one of radiation, NP, and kinetic; two of the three for civilian human shields. Anything with higher opacity against NP should have high or complete opacity to CP.

Armor should typically be very vulnerable to antimatter and weak against either shock or CP. Unless armor is very exotic its resistance to NP should be proportional to its mass independent of level. Armor should typically have 100% opacity to everything but shock and psionic.

Internal structure should have its own resistance table, possibly a few levels such as tbStructureCivilian, tbStructureMilitary, tbStructureAlien1 and so forth. Internal structure should always be very (more than double damage even for the halo races and core minds) weak to shock and antimatter. Ships with no internal structure ignore any damage that bypasses armor.

Lasers are radiation with small shock.
Kinetics are generally kinetic but something big like the ballista might have a little shock and the flenser might have a little NP
Blast is kinetic with shock and most of the damage in the shock.
Particle beams are charged or neutral particles. CP tend to be more damaging and have radiation and/or irradiate but easier to shield against.
Ion weapons are CP with independent NP to reflect that heavier charged particles are harder to shield against than light charged particles. Assuming we're talking about pretty heavy ions at least. Helium would fall under CP and heavier stuff would have proportionately more NP. Really big ions at high enough velocities would get &exotic.
Nukes are kinetic with independent radiation, CP, and NP with shock for direct hits and radiation with independent CP and NP for fragments.
Positron weapons are antimatter with CP.
Plasma comes out as NP with independent CP and radiation. It's kind of a fake damage type since nukes also mostly deal damage through plasma.
Antimatter weapons are antimatter with NP.
Nano would be kinetic with something nasty in <ondamagearmor> and/or <ondamageinternal>.
Graviton weapons are shock with shield bypass in <ondamageshields>.
Singularity could be exotic with shock either with a high shield damage modifier on the exotic or independent on the shock.
The dark types use psionic combined with various things.

There's a bit of tiering. NP is better than CP at passing shields and stuff with exotic or psionic is better than stuff without. Kinetic&shock stuff eventually stops working well against alien shields.

Current blast and positron become capship finishers. Thermo and plasma become anti-capship as well, but more versatile. Antimatter becomes a very strong capship killer. Other types tend to be for dropping shields, but for any shield there are types that cut straight through it.
I like this. If I understand correctly though, would this be an equivalent way of organizing your idea:

There are different types of structural elements (e.g. "shield", "armour", "internal structure", "exotic internal structure", etc.), and different weapon type labels (e.g. "laser", "kinetic", "psionic", "antimatter", etc.).

Every structure (e.g. "ship", "station", "asteroid ore") has a particular combination of structural elements.

A weapon does "damage". Damage is the effect a weapon's shots have on other weapon shots, or on different structural elements of a structure.

Weapon type labels are cosmetics. They help the player understand what kind of damages a particular weapon does. For example, kinetic *might* refer internally to: (0.5*shield + 0.5*armour). That is, a kinetic weapon equally damages shield and armour, and zero damage to other structure types. Laser on the other hand, might be more skewed: (0.75*shield + 0.1*internal structure + 0.15*armour). The player might not know these exact numbers, except through flavour text hints.

Mod designers can pick what weapon label they want to use (or even create a new one entirely), and all they have to do is assign what combination of damages that weapon label will refer to. Mod designers might also create new types of structural elements.

So, as far as the game engine itself is concerned, all it has to do is:

1) show the right graphics for weapon effects/structural elements

2) calculate the right numbers based on the structural elements of the structure being damaged, and a combination of "damage" that a mod designer has assigned the weapon label

I am not sure if this is a rehash of your idea, except in a different language. It is supposed to be a rehash that is slightly more general. If it is not, can you clarify?

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Thu May 21, 2015 10:21 am

Basically everything you say about damage is about that fact that damage is not different from each other except for some armor being more or less resistant to it but in ascending order anyway.

https://forums.kronosaur.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=7098
Every damage type should be different and useful/useless in certain situations.

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Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:08 pm

Xposting from my armor coating thread:


I would suggest associating each damage type with two potential on-hit effects, with one being "offensive"-oriented and the other providing "utility". Offensive effects would generally serve to amplify direct damage while utility effects would apply various debuffs. For example, laser weapons could as their offensive effect get a chance to overheat armor (causing extra damage over time and/or temporarily prohibiting repair), and for their utility effect get a chance to burn sensors (scrambling the long-range radar when applied to the player and causing pursuit breakoff when applied to AI ships outside visual range.)

Each individual weapon model would have a specific % chance to proc one or both of its damage type's associated effects, with some models having high chance and others having low chance. Damage is already a diceroll so it makes sense to roll dice for proc chance as well. Certain enemy ship classes or unique enemies could get inherent proc bonuses too, if desired. Maybe effects should only proc against armor, not against shields, and maybe proc chance can be reduced by armor resistances.

Continuing my laser example, the Bolide (used mostly on interceptors) could get a high overheat chance and low or nil sensorburn chance, while the laser cannon array and mining laser (used mostly to drive enemies off rather than kill them) could get a high sensorburn chance and low overheat chance. Basic laser weapons would have a low chance to proc either effect, increasing slightly as you progress from lasers to turbolasers to x-ray lasers. Weapons with high rate of fire would generally need to have lower per-shot proc chance, unless they already do low base damage.

Enhancements, devices, consumables and Domina powers could all give the player more opportunities to tweak the chance of either offensive or utility effects procing. This would allow players lots of flexibility to create interesting ship builds. For example, an auton support ship focused on applying harmful debuffs to enemy ships while its autons chew them up would not be forced to stick to the EMP or Cnidocyst cannons, but could instead use the weapons of its choice in combination with devices, weapon enhancements, consumables and/or Domina/CDM powers that enhance said weapons' chance to proc utility effects (maybe at the cost of doing reduced direct damage). A player who just wants to do lots of straight-up damage might be able to find a weapon enhancement mod that reduces all proc chances but increases rate of fire, or per-shot-damage. And so on.

Consumables would be able to negate appropriate debuffs in addition to their normal effects. For example, using monopole dust when EMP'd would cause the EMP effect to end rather than applying the coating. Longzhu spheres could also be used to negate energy-weapon induced debuffs. Sustain, Restore and Defend should all terminate debuffs; Strengthen should increase offensive proc chance rather than direct damage. Maybe there can be a toggleable CDM power that can remain active indefinitely, increasing utility proc chance by a lot while reducing damage or RoF. CDM powers shouldn't be able to dispel debuffs on the player.

Effects that seemed logical to me were:

class: offensive/utility

Laser: overheat/sensorburn

Kinetic: none

Particle: shieldlock (increase shieldsdown duration) / charge (short-duration debuff causing ship take extra damage from other damage types, maybe increased vulnerability to cyberattacks)

Blast: AoE explosion or fragmentation damage / knockback

Ion: shieldbust and ionize / EMP

Thermo: spall (do 1 tier higher WMD than normal and leave short-duration cloud of damaging particles) / irradiate

Positron: passthrough / weapons lock

Plasma: melt (overheat on steroids) or jump (attack jumps to another enemy) / corona (your own ship starts glowing and discharging lighting at ships that get too close)

Antimatter: disintegrate / timewarp (short-duration debuff forcing enemy ship into slow motion + slow projectiles)

Nanotech: devour (pteravore-type effects, maybe tracking cloud) / infect (allies view as hostile and attack, chance to capture smaller ships, usually capture autons, chimeras, drones etc; increased vulnerability to cyberattacks)

Graviton: tracking (with a high chance to proc) / frame drag (tractor beam)

Singularity: crunch (transient white dwarf gravity effect centered on hit ship; allied/enemy collisions damage both ships) / phase shift (knocked out of existence for a couple of seconds before reappearing)

Dark Acid: ignore shields / force Domina powers onto cooldown?
Last edited by Watch TV, Do Nothing on Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:12 pm

Watch TV, Do Nothing wrote:Kinetic: none
 If I was going to go along with this idea — and there are definitely parts of it I like — my handling for kinetic would be knockback on the defensive side (though less so than blast), and a chance for a few ticks worth of stun on the offensive side (mimicking the need of a pilot to recover from getting bounced around, computers recalibrating to new heading, et cetera).
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Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:45 pm

AssumedPseudonym wrote: my handling for kinetic would be knockback on the defensive side (though less so than blast)
Hmm.. are you equating knockback with recoil here? To my mind the two things are different, & knockback has no place as a kinetic debuff

Perhaps add recoil or an instant energy drain? Accelerating and expelling mass at high speed would lead to one if not both effects, unless one uses chemical propulsion when heat would be a problem again, along with further recoil..

Space vacuum is a very effective thermal insulator despite the exterior cold (think of Thermos flasks): most current craft (& especially personnel suits - you can cook to death in one from your own body heat if it's not working properly..) are designed to get rid of thermal energy as quickly & efficiently as possible. If you turned metal-based armour segments into heatsinks/radiators this would gel nicely with some of wTV's ideas in that direction..

My assumptions are:
  • Knockback throws <playership> away from its strike zone as a sort of shockwave effect of the weapon (ammo) hitting the target (forget about the inappropriateness of this in vacuum surroundings for the moment..)
    Recoil is a direct result of mass being expelled from <ship>, which results in appropriate effects according to Newton
ISTM recoil is much more suitable for kinetic weapons/ammo (they're not explosive) than knockback

Apologies if my assumptions are inappropriate or not implemented in-game; I haven't followed the modding community much to check the correct in-game terminology..
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Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:52 pm

When I say "knockback", I mean the result of any force imposed on a ship from an external source (i.e., not its own engines or weapons.) Kinetic (and other physical) weapons already move their targets around through knockback. For the proposed blast proc ability, I was kind of thinking that shots that successfully proc the utility ability would impose much more knockback than normal, simulating a lucky hit against a properly shaped armor surface that results in the target absorbing much more force than normal, possibly throwing it across the screen if it's a smaller ship.

When I say "recoil" I mean any force imposed on a ship by the action of its own weapons. This is not an appropriate proc effect since weapon recoil kind of needs to be consistent; there's no benefit to having it be uneven.

In general the damage effects that I assigned to physical weapons are milder than those that energy weapons would get (until you get to the very advanced damage types.) This matches the current trend in the game where almost all of the weapons with non-damage effects are energy weapons, while physical weapons tend to do more raw damage per shot and to have higher theoretical DPS.

I thought it would make sense for kinetic weapons, which are the crudest and simplest form of weapons in use, to not have any proc effects. They generally seem to already do higher damage in the early game than lasers, and there are kinetic options like the Smartcannon and that cloud gun (I forget its name) which have cool non-proc effects. Moreover, in the early game the player will not have as much access to proc enhancement powers and items that they will acquire by lategame, so giving kinetics proc powers is not as critical.

On the other hand, I assigned very strong proc abilities to lasers, since players have lamented in other threads that lasers don't retain any utility into the lategame despite being cool pew pew guns and the default armament on most autons and civilian ships and what have you. Being able to prevent armor repair or to force disengagement is probably a lot stronger in the late game where there are regenerating ships and stations (dwarg, ranx, etc.) and extremely nasty enemies you may want to avoid altogether (Ferian warriors, Ventari); consequently, some players might consider retaining a laser in one of their weapons slots in order to retain access to the proc effects only (since lasers would still be ineffective against advanced armor types).
Last edited by Watch TV, Do Nothing on Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Watch TV, Do Nothing
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Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:36 pm

As for proc chance, I envision that it would be decided on a case-by-case basis, with a tendency towards:


low or nil proc chance for either effect type:
-basic repeater cannons and their derivatives (laser + /fast/dual/omni lasers, slam cannon, Tev9 & variants, ion cannon...)
-cloud weapons (PK25, plasma torch...)
-most missiles
-certain factions' weapons (Ares...)

high offensive proc chance:
- howitzers
- top-tier missiles for their respective weapons (Burak600, Lucifer, M5 Nemesis...)
- ammunition-fed cannons (Akan, Nandao...)
- certain factions' unique weapons (Centauri, First Hunters, Ranx, Ventari, AP...)
- burst repeaters (mining laser, Lancer, Moskva...)

high utility proc chance:
- spread weapons (Laser Cannon Array, Dragonfly, ion flame cannon...)
- oddball repeaters (Bolide, Shuriken...)
- a few special missiles
- certain factions' unique weapons (Sung, Resurrectors, Dreaming Horde...)

balanced offensive/utility proc chance:
- archcannons
- certain factions' unique weapons (Chimeras, ED?)


A few weapons like the Cnidocyst cannon should retain their existing high (100%?) proc chances and some factions should retain nonstandard weapon effects (Lumiere's shield-penetration and Sapiens's radioactive blast weapons, for example).

Most enhancer devices should increase one or both kinds of proc chances rather than (or in addition to) directly boosting raw damage. Rare enhancement items should also boost proc chance for individual weapons when applied to them. At least one Domina and one CDM power should increase proc chance for all installed weapons. One of the auton types should enhance proc chance of any weapon installed on it. Possibly there can be tradeoffs in the form of reduced damage, range or firing speed associated with some of these proc boosters.

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