Suggestion & Brainstorm: Illegal Weapons

[Watch TV, Do Nothing]

I firmly disagree. I think the illegal category should also encompass items that governments ban because they are dangerous to the user (e.g. weapons that have been modified outside their safety tolerances) and items that violate various patent laws. This preserves the illegal/military split and presents a logical reason why some groups like Tinkers might be willing to install illegal weapons but not military weapons.

It's similar to how torrent aggregators are willing to host cracked video games and pirated music but not, say, blueprints for uranium centrifuges. Your local shady auto mechanic might be willing to install an illegal catalytic converter bypass kit on your Miata, but he would probably balk if you asked him to slap a Stinger missile launcher on it too.

Illegal weapons/mods could also present interesting situations beyond simple confiscation. For example, Rasiermesser stations could refuse service to a Freyr pilot who has a jailbroken Makayev weapon installed in the swivel slot. Commonwealth militia (who are more concerned with enforcing civil laws than the Navy) should actually be empowered to confiscate installed illegal items from dockers, just as modern police wouldn't ignore a car with illegal window tint parked in front of the local precinct station.

[PM]

I do not disagree that illegal devices can include illegally modified and/or pirated tech.

Tinkers install only armor, and they check for military ID and refuse to install illegal armor. Tinkers can make the (illegal) waste cannon and some military armor.

The problem with high level illegal items is unless an enemy routinely uses them and drops them as loot, such as neuroplague launcher and ammo, they may be too rare to obtain. Many places do not offer illegal items for sale, and black market rarely spawns illegals higher than level 4.

[Watch TV, Do Nothing]

I do not disagree that illegal devices can include illegally modified and/or pirated tech.

Tinkers install only armor, and they check for military ID and refuse to install illegal armor. Tinkers can make the (illegal) waste cannon and some military armor.

The problem with high level illegal items is unless an enemy routinely uses them and drops them as loot, such as neuroplague launcher and ammo, they may be too rare to obtain. Many places do not offer illegal items for sale, and black market rarely spawns illegals higher than level 4.

Right, that's why I also suggested:

Let tinkers install illegal weapons for an extortionate rate. Once the player finds and installs an illegal weapon for the first time via the tinkers, they could gain access to a secret "back room" at all tinkers stations where they can buy (but not sell) other illegal weapons, enhancements and devices. Include a small risk when installing illegal weapons from a tinker station that the workshop gets raided by Commonwealth police during the installation, causing all illegal cargo and weapons to get confiscated.

[catfighter]

I think the illegal category should also encompass items that governments ban because they are dangerous to the user (e.g. weapons that have been modified outside their safety tolerances) and items that violate various patent laws. This preserves the illegal/military split and presents a logical reason why some groups like Tinkers might be willing to install illegal weapons but not military weapons.

I heartily agree. There needs to be a difference between "you can't use that insanely overpowered weapon because we said so" and "you can't use that insanely overpowered weapon because you're not with the Fleet."

Copyright would be an interesting mechanic to play around with. New weapons/devices/etc are released all the time, perhaps even during the player's travels, and acquiring one from anywhere other than the designer/manufacturer would mark it as illegal. I think I read an idea somewhere (or maybe it was my own) about a mission by Makayev to hunt down a pirate fleet with a stolen prototype before they duplicated it and spread it across the galaxy.

Another (somewhat random) idea I though of was including an enforced "peace zone" around all major population centers. Any ship which fires a massively OP weapon within a certain radius will be given a warning and be chased off by military reinforcements upon continued usage.

[Song]

The problem then is that if weapons are dangerous to the user, they suck.....and if they're illegal because of patent stuff then they end up just being boring.

[catfighter]

The problem then is that if weapons are dangerous to the user, they suck.....and if they're illegal because of patent stuff then they end up just being boring.

Aw, come on! But what if Makayev was actively chasing you across the galaxy with super-manticores because they really want that blueprint back? What if they actually were a threat? ( Yeah right, but still.)

[Atarlost]

The problem then is that if weapons are dangerous to the user, they suck.....and if they're illegal because of patent stuff then they end up just being boring.

Aw, come on! But what if Makayev was actively chasing you across the galaxy with super-manticores because they really want that blueprint back? What if they actually were a threat? ( Yeah right, but still.)

Well, it would get the Svarog resources in the main game I guess, but I think it would be more annoying than fun and illegals would therefore be ignored and thus boring.

[Watch TV, Do Nothing]

The problem then is that if weapons are dangerous to the user, they suck.....and if they're illegal because of patent stuff then they end up just being boring.

I don't think dangerous weapons have to suck- one example I thought of would be to make the dual MKIII illegal. People love that thing but it would be regarded as an illegal weapon because its recoil is so high that the Commonwealth considers it impossible for your average Joe Schmo IAV pilot to control it around cargo container habitats, etc. Since you're a super duper pilgrim pilot this "danger" is more of a minor annoyance that's more than offset by the usefulness of the weapon, but a ban is a ban and the weapon is still illegal for everyone. There could also be a railgun extension enhancement that increased any howitzer's muzzle velocity and recoil, and a howitzer enhanced like this would be illegal for the same reason.

We all remember fun toys from our childhoods that got banned because some kid choked on a part or electrocuted himself, etc. Dangerous illegal weapons are like that- they're only dangerous if you aren't taking special precautions when using them, but nobody gets to play with them because the Commonwealth can't ensure that everyone will use them safely. An x-ray laser with an aftermarket chamber that irradiates the user's ship wouldn't be dangerous to the player if they installed radiation resistant armor, but this would still be an illegal modification because some idiot might try running it on an unprotected ship and killing himself.

[PM]

Remember how annoying and dangerous enemies with rapid-fire hitscan machine guns were in other games, like the chaingunner in Doom 2 or the droid armed with a Vulcan in Descent?

Idea for illegal weapon: something that shoots invisible and stealth bullets. Bullets with no visible effect and have very high stealth to make it invisible beyond range 6. Bonus points if the weapon is omnidirectional and the bullets are not too fast. The idea is the target may not know who is firing at it if the attacker is in a crowd (or has stealth armor to conceal its position).

[Song]

Invisible beams are a bad idea. They've been tried with mods over and over again, and outside scripted uses they tend to be unpopular.

[PM]

Of course they are unpopular. Players want to win, and dislike features that get in the way of that. Give it to an enemy you want the player to hate. They will manage.

[Song]

You should hate an enemy because of their actions and tactics. Not because of bad design decisions (admittedly, this is more idealistic than based in reality).

[PM]

It is hard to hate such an intelligent enemy who plays too fair. Sometimes, when you want to be brutal (and rebuke players with the entitlement mindset), you throw in opposition that seems or is unfair (but not too unfair).

Some features of older games (video or otherwise) seem to be full of "bad design" features. Some criticism is justified, others are opinions of spoiled players who want the win handed to them (despite not wanting to admit that).

I like the idea of invisible bullets, if used sparingly. Gives the game that brutal old-school charm for a moment... and something different for at least one enemy. In any case, it is an idea for a illegal weapon. Illegal because it is a mostly untraceable weapon for criminals to assassinate unwitting targets.


I must admit that the ion disruptor from 1.01 or earlier is probably too unfair due to breaking multiple six-figure items with ease. (Even so, I made the silly suggestion of adding it back as an illegal weapon.) Ionization is more fair. Even then, a device that gets ionized while ionized gets damaged permanently instead, so the risk of permanent damage via double ionization is still there.

[Watch TV, Do Nothing]

The old ion disruptor was great, IMO- the real problem was that the classic brutal roguelike mechanic of corrosion didn't appear early enough in the game. If an early avoidable enemy like the Abbassids also damaged equipped items, people would have been introduced to gear destruction as a game mechanic from the beginning and more prepared to accept it when it reappeared in the Outer Realm. Transcendence isn't an MMO where causing permanent changes like damaging gear is "unfair". It was always possible to fix or replace almost anything that got disrupted.

[JohnBWatson]

The old ion disruptor was great, IMO- the real problem was that the classic brutal roguelike mechanic of corrosion didn't appear early enough in the game. If an early avoidable enemy like the Abbassids also damaged equipped items, people would have been introduced to gear destruction as a game mechanic from the beginning and more prepared to accept it when it reappeared in the Outer Realm. Transcendence isn't an MMO where causing permanent changes like damaging gear is "unfair". It was always possible to fix or replace almost anything that got disrupted.

I agree. It'd make shields worthwhile again, at the very least.