More weapon balance stats

[gunship256]

Before 1.1, I gave +150% IM90 to the Wolfen, and circled enemies (especially Iocrym command ship) as I shot them. I could focus more on dodging as there was no need to line up shots.

As for swivel, I consider twenty degree arc about a x0.75 or x0.8 multiplier in terms of weapon guidelines. Not sure about much wider arcs. Smaller arcs, ten degrees or less are useful only for two things: Compensating for AI's lack of facings and/or bad aim, or to force repeating weapons to fire an entire burst with the same velocity (if aTargetObj is not Nil) even if the attacker turns - in other words, no spraying by turning the ship.

So if I'm hearing you right:

10 degrees -> almost no benefit
20 degrees -> 75% enhancement
360 degrees -> 150% enhancement

That suggests to me that most of the benefit to swivel is in the improved ability to aim, and dodging is of much less benefit. Do you usually use omni weapons to dodge when you install them?

[PM]

I do not know about swivels much greater than 30 (have not played those enough). Weapons with some swivel, 20 to 30 degrees, really improve hit rate if you point in the general direction of ships.

I consider 20 degrees worth about +25% enhancement. Basically, such a swivel should not exceed damage guidelines, barring other adjustments. For example, with level 2 lasers, fast-fire laser (25 DPS) with swivel may be okay, but a dual laser (30 DPS) with a swivel probably is not.

[gunship256]

I do not know about swivels much greater than 30 (have not played those enough). Weapons with some swivel, 20 to 30 degrees, really improve hit rate if you point in the general direction of ships.

I consider 20 degrees worth about +25% enhancement. Basically, such a swivel should not exceed damage guidelines, barring other adjustments. For example, with level 2 lasers, fast-fire laser (25 DPS) with swivel may be okay, but a dual laser (30 DPS) with a swivel probably is not.

This is really helpful to know. By the formula I'm using, a 20% swivel should only be equivalent to an (20/360)*150% = 8.3% enhancement, but it's actually worth about 3 times as much.

Are there mods out there with swivel weapons people have played? What's the feel on how much more powerful given amounts of swivel are than a normal weapon?

[PM]

Some weapons in my mods are swivel (usually limited to twenty degrees).

Then, Playership Drones v6 had ships with swivels because original ships have swivels. (Side note: I really need to finish PSD7 some day.)

One thing to remember, Xiphon cannon is a slam cannon with swivel and higher power use.

[gunship256]

OK - here's a quick and dirty formula for people to comment on.

e = (s/360)^(2/3)*150%

e = equivalent enhancement amount
s = swivel arc, in degrees

Here's a table with the results:

s -> e

0 degrees -> 0%
20 degrees -> 22%
40 degrees -> 35%
60 degrees -> 45%

90 degrees -> 60% (Using PM's formula where 150% is enhancement by two levels, this is enhancement by one level, as 1.6 squared is is about 2.5. It is also how effective the typical slotted enhancer seems to be.)

120 degrees -> 72%
180 degrees -> 95%
270 degrees -> 124%
360 degrees -> 150%

Does this sound about right?

[Atarlost]

Some weapons in my mods are swivel (usually limited to twenty degrees).

Then, Playership Drones v6 had ships with swivels because original ships have swivels. (Side note: I really need to finish PSD7 some day.)

One thing to remember, Xiphon cannon is a slam cannon with swivel and higher power use.

And substantially shorter range. Slam cannon reaches 80. Xiphon only reaches 50.

[gunship256]

Playing through 1.7 alpha has given me some food for thought on omni weapons:

Assuming that omni = 100% enhancement may be making omni weapons overpowered. I've only tried an omni turbolaser, as it's the only omni weapon that spawned in the early/mid game for me, but it seems pretty strong.

Omni is probably worth more for weapons with high accuracy and high shot speed. It might be possible to quantify some of this. Low shot speed means that a weapon's shots will spend more time crossing the path of a potential target, so more of the shots will hit. In that scenario, inaccuracy is actually a benefit, since the any change in the target's momentum will penalize accuracy. Low shot speed and high inaccuracy also form a better screen against missiles for the same reason.

Since omni increases the effectiveness of accuracy, it will help energy weapons a lot more than kinetics.

My tentative suggestion would be to assume that omni = 100% benefit for short-range mass weapons with low shot speed and high inaccuracy. Assume that omni = 200% benefit for long-range weapons and for energy weapons with high accuracy.

Does that sound like it would effectively rebalance omni weapons, especially the energy weapons?

[PM]

200 for omni is too much. Even pre-1.7 was effectively 150.

Remember that tracking is only 50, and most tracking weapons are nearly, if not already, as good as omni.

[JohnBWatson]

Remember that tracking is only 50, and most tracking weapons are nearly, if not already, as good as omni.

I believe tracking being valued less than omni is an oversight, not an intended feature. They were both 50, then George changed omni to 100 and didn't alter tracking.

Most tracking weapons are missiles, so it's not really easy to notice.

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@gunship: I believe you're right that most omni weapons are presently a bit too powerful, I think focusing on effective range is the way to balance them. I'm not opposed to changing the value to 150, though I don't think that would fix the problem.