Weapon balance v2

[Song]

Looking at the stats again, I think the plasma torch could definitely use a buff. It's a short-range weapon that has to meet the damage thresholds for mining...so it should be pretty powerful. This also makes ferian-farming more challenging (gone are the 0.99c days of swarms of ferians killing people...right now they're a bit feeble apart from the super-fast glitch-powered semi-non-newtonian Warriors), and makes mining a little nicer at that level because the slot isn't quite as wasted as it would otherwise be.

[Watch TV, Do Nothing]

Looking at the stats again, I think the plasma torch could definitely use a buff. It's a short-range weapon that has to meet the damage thresholds for mining...so it should be pretty powerful. This also makes ferian-farming more challenging (gone are the 0.99c days of swarms of ferians killing people...right now they're a bit feeble apart from the super-fast glitch-powered semi-non-newtonian Warriors), and makes mining a little nicer at that level because the slot isn't quite as wasted as it would otherwise be.

Plasma torch offers a damage type two levels higher than the norm for weapons of its TL, though. Surely that has to count for something. Ferians feeling feeble could be addressed by increasing their fire rate modifier, but it could also reflect the fact that you're an expert player and know how to deal with them.

[PM]

Plasma torch has trouble mining in late-game systems thanks to damage thresholds. If it needs to be more powerful, it needs more damage. Attack type could be changed from particles to bolts, because particles' weak multi-hits is terrible for mining.

[JohnBWatson]

Looking at the stats again, I think the plasma torch could definitely use a buff. It's a short-range weapon that has to meet the damage thresholds for mining...so it should be pretty powerful. This also makes ferian-farming more challenging (gone are the 0.99c days of swarms of ferians killing people...right now they're a bit feeble apart from the super-fast glitch-powered semi-non-newtonian Warriors), and makes mining a little nicer at that level because the slot isn't quite as wasted as it would otherwise be.

The weakness of miners is their speed. 95% of players won't take a single hit from them, so the power of their weapons is a non - factor at present. I believe that buffing their speed enough that they can feasibly get into weapon range would be more than sufficient, but even if I'm wrong about this it's likely best to wait until they can actually fight back before deciding whether they need a damage buff.

As for the torch, think it's a fair weapon for its level, and is reasonably decent at killing all types of enemies. I've used it a few times, and haven't been disappointed.

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Plasma torch has trouble mining in late-game systems thanks to damage thresholds. If it needs to be more powerful, it needs more damage. Attack type could be changed from particles to bolts, because particles' weak multi-hits is terrible for mining.

The Plasma Cannon also has mining, and appears to be what was intended for the endgame mining role. Changing to bolts is a good idea, as long as it's given better WMD to keep it at the same level as a weapon.

[Song]

Looking at the stats again, I think the plasma torch could definitely use a buff. It's a short-range weapon that has to meet the damage thresholds for mining...so it should be pretty powerful. This also makes ferian-farming more challenging (gone are the 0.99c days of swarms of ferians killing people...right now they're a bit feeble apart from the super-fast glitch-powered semi-non-newtonian Warriors), and makes mining a little nicer at that level because the slot isn't quite as wasted as it would otherwise be.

The weakness of miners is their speed. 95% of players won't take a single hit from them, so the power of their weapons is a non - factor at present. I believe that buffing their speed enough that they can feasibly get into weapon range would be more than sufficient, but even if I'm wrong about this it's likely best to wait until they can actually fight back before deciding whether they need a damage buff.

As for the torch, think it's a fair weapon for its level, and is reasonably decent at killing all types of enemies. I've used it a few times, and haven't been disappointed.

It's really not. The algorithm puts it at -46%, and keep in mind that short-ranged weapons are generally supposed to be more powerful to counter their range. I've done great things with the plasma torch before (including killing a Xeno worldship over ~20 agonising minutes a few versions ago)...but it is not a good combat gun. At all.

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Plasma torch has trouble mining in late-game systems thanks to damage thresholds. If it needs to be more powerful, it needs more damage. Attack type could be changed from particles to bolts, because particles' weak multi-hits is terrible for mining.

The Plasma Cannon also has mining, and appears to be what was intended for the endgame mining role. Changing to bolts is a good idea, as long as it's given better WMD to keep it at the same level as a weapon.

The Ferian Plasma Cannon is an endgame gun, with endgame power consumption. The fact it mines is more a reference to what it's made out of: this is a scaled-up mining torch, optimised for combat.....and as a result it's very good at combat, and not very good at mining. You cannot expect to mine with it without burning all your fuel very quickly. Changing to bolts is also antithetical to the general standards for plasma weapons, and the general pattern of changes (plasma weapons are getting moved from bolts to clouds).

[PM]

Currently, plasma torch is about as effective (or maybe better) at mining as Ferian Cannon because it has a better mining score. I tried mining Heretic with Ferian Cannon, but it was much too tedious and frustrating. So far, a mining laser with +225% damage might be the easiest weapon to use.

Also, Ferian Cannon can only be acquired by farming Ferian Warriors. With notrandom frequency, you can neither buy nor fabricate the Ferian Cannon.

[JohnBWatson]

It's really not. The algorithm puts it at -46%, and keep in mind that short-ranged weapons are generally supposed to be more powerful to counter their range. I've done great things with the plasma torch before (including killing a Xeno worldship over ~20 agonising minutes a few versions ago)...but it is not a good combat gun. At all.

I think the un-resisted multi - hit is fairly powerful in a way that the algorithm doesn't really detect. It's not overpowered, though, and power creep has generally ignored it, so I wouldn't be outright opposed to buffing its damage.

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Changing to bolts is also antithetical to the general standards for plasma weapons, and the general pattern of changes (plasma weapons are getting moved from bolts to clouds).

On the topic of bolts, the APA and EIPC both use standard weapon fire rather than clouds(unless that's getting altered).

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Currently, plasma torch is about as effective (or maybe better) at mining as Ferian Cannon because it has a better mining score. I tried mining Heretic with Ferian Cannon, but it was much too tedious and frustrating. So far, a mining laser with +225% damage might be the easiest weapon to use.

That's a solid point. I suppose the torch is our designated endgame miner.

That said, it might be good to add in something better for Outer Realm mining(while keeping the torch decent to justify the Ferian presence there), to complete the set of mining laser for early game and torch for midgame.

Also, Ferian Cannon can only be acquired by farming Ferian Warriors. With notrandom frequency, you can neither buy nor fabricate the Ferian Cannon.

Yeah, it may not have been the tool I thought it was. Haven't used it in a while.

[NMS]

On the topic of bolts, the APA and EIPC both use standard weapon fire rather than clouds(unless that's getting altered).

That change is already done for next version.

[PM]

I know the APA was changed, but 1.7 EI plasma cannon was changed too? If so, where is the source?

P.S. Will Baihu archcannon be changed to fire clouds too?

[JohnBWatson]

I know the APA was changed, but 1.7 EI plasma cannon was changed too? If so, where is the source?

P.S. Will Baihu archcannon be changed to fire clouds too?

I'd also like the source on EIPC being altered in that way. I actually checked the Ministry tag before making my earlier post, and didn't find anything on either of those weapons.

[PM]

There was a ticket to "Reduce spread of APA damage roll". Resolution confirmed APA changed from bolts to clouds. No mention of other plasma weapons.

[george moromisato]

There was a ticket to "Reduce spread of APA damage roll". Resolution confirmed APA changed from bolts to clouds. No mention of other plasma weapons.

In general, I'm moving to particle clouds for most plasma weapons. That will make plasma distinctive.

The only ones that probably won't be converted to clouds are:

Iocrym repeller
chimeric plasma missile
Luminous plasma missile

I haven't yet converted chimeric plasma cannon or Baihu archcannon to particle clouds, but I think both should be converted.

[PM]

•Decreased fire rate of omni particle cannon (was slightly overpowered).

...What?! Unless the change to blast resist for Sung was enough to make particle worth using, Omni particle has been regarded as underpowered to the point the people prefer enhanced (or maybe even unenhanced if early enough) Omni turbolaser/x-ray laser over this. The only reasons to use Omni particle over Omni lasers were either slightly longer range or lasers were blocked by playership's Solon shield.

[JohnBWatson]

•Decreased fire rate of omni particle cannon (was slightly overpowered).

...What?! Unless the change to blast resist for Sung was enough to make particle worth using, Omni particle has been regarded as underpowered to the point the people prefer enhanced (or maybe even unenhanced if early enough) Omni turbolaser/x-ray laser over this. The only reasons to use Omni particle over Omni lasers were either slightly longer range or lasers were blocked by playership's Solon shield.

I think this could be fine as long as some actual laser resistance is applied to the Sung and other midgame enemies(and, of course, the planned changes to particle resist are implemented). In particular, I'd buff the laser and kinetic resistance of the light sung armor used by the Wind Slaver to make it more viable as armor when it first shows up in randomly generated loot. I'd even go as far as buffing its HP a bit, given how quickly the Wind Slavers guarding a station tend to get killed relative to everything else. If they get too tough, their weapons can always be swapped with those of the Steel Slavers, something I'd suggest anyways to make the latter an actual threat(right now, it just loses its lighter escorts in a handful of seconds, then just slightly delays its own death by disabling the player's weapons for a few seconds while they either run away or dodge its pitiful offensive capabilities).

Right now, the omni turbolaser + laser enhancer vastly outdoes the OPC for the entirety of the Ungoverned Territories, so laser resistance definitely needs to increase.

[george moromisato]

•Decreased fire rate of omni particle cannon (was slightly overpowered).

...What?! Unless the change to blast resist for Sung was enough to make particle worth using, Omni particle has been regarded as underpowered to the point the people prefer enhanced (or maybe even unenhanced if early enough) Omni turbolaser/x-ray laser over this. The only reasons to use Omni particle over Omni lasers were either slightly longer range or lasers were blocked by playership's Solon shield.

Thanks--I think this is a bug in the balance calculations. Balance is computed based on percent change to DPS relative to standard DPS for the level (actually damage-per-180 ticks, but the percentage is the same). The actual equation is:

balance-change = 100 * (DPS - std-DPS) / std-DPS

A weapon with 2x DPS relative to standard gets +100 balance because it does 100% more damage. Omni gets +100 to balance because I figure it is worth double DPS. That is, you'd trade half your DPS to get omni.

But a weapon with 1/2 DPS (relative to standard) is 50% weaker, thus by the balance equations, it gets -50 to balance, which doesn't compensate for omni. So all omni weapons seem overpowered.

The fix is to change the balance calculations. Instead, I think balance changes proportional to the base-2 log of the damage ratio. Something like:

balance-change = 100 * log2(DPS/std-DPS)

If I did my math right, 1/2 DPS will be worth -100 balance, which will compensate for the +100 omni.

Anyway, thanks for pointing this out. I'll redo the calculations and post an update.