Balancing Iocrym sentinels

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JohnBWatson
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Re: Balancing Iocrym sentinels

Post by JohnBWatson » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:28 pm

TheLoneWolf wrote:What virus cube? Luminous cube?
The one obtained by giving Kate extra ROMS.

I'm working on the first iteration of a test mod that resolves the problem as others suggested - by adding a long ranged weapon to the Iocrym with a high failsafe.

Edit: Posted what I have so far. Very difficult to get the weapon so that it works with both the Sentinel attack groups, the Outposts, and the ICS fight. That last one is to be expected - the ICS's sentinel spawning methods aren't really compatible with a ship that can attack without the ICS's help.
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PM
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Re: Balancing Iocrym sentinels

Post by PM » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:49 pm

Offensive power factors in whether the weapon has any chance of hitting. For Sentinels, that chance is nonexistent except against people deliberately taking hits or those who are unaware that they are armed.
If target is in range, it hits. That the sentinel lacks the range or speed to make range a non-issue is irrelevant (to me, which is why I consider sentinel high defense, higher offense). Actually, it is a good thing sentinel is slower than player, because if not, that fracture cannon will destroy the player.
Is that a desirable mechanic? Should an exploit that provides no excitement or challenge be (effectively) the only way of defeating an enemy ship?
Maybe, maybe not, but it is different than others. For previous enemies, player can skip almost every enemy then backtrack and smash with overleveled equipment.

And kiting sentinels is not broken or even necessarily an exploit, even though you (JBW) seem to think it is.
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Re: Balancing Iocrym sentinels

Post by gunship256 » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:15 pm

JohnBWatson wrote:As far as the long ranged weapon goes, I'd start by just adding a *omni turreted secondary weapon with a high failsafe in the same manner as any capital ship turret, and then adding features from there.
A sentinel won't target the playership if it's on the way to destroy a station (EDIT: as far as I know - I haven't checked the code). Even if the turret has a 270 degree fire arc behind the ship and is set to fire only if a target is within that arc, auto-targeting only works a 30ls radius.

A point-defense weapon can be set to auto-target almost anything at any range.

The toughest situation is when the player has a ship 25c or slower and has to reach the sentinels in time. They're pretty easy to kill with a megadrive, as kiting isn't even necessary if the player reaches them in time. A PD weapon makes it more of a challenge to take on the sentinels if the player has a megadrive.

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Re: Balancing Iocrym sentinels

Post by JohnBWatson » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:40 pm

gunship256 wrote: A sentinel won't target the playership if it's on the way to destroy a station (EDIT: as far as I know - I haven't checked the code). Even if the turret has a 270 degree fire arc behind the ship and is set to fire only if a target is within that arc, auto-targeting only works a 30ls radius.
In testing, that solution seemed to work there. That said, it's not required that the Sentinel fight back while it's attacking a station.

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Re: Balancing Iocrym sentinels

Post by TheLoneWolf » Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:51 am

Thanks for the download, JBW!

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Re: Balancing Iocrym sentinels

Post by Peter » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:07 am

Adding a second Iocrym gunship, which is less exploitable and serves the roles that the Sentinel is not compatible with, such as attacking the player directly and defending the stations.
This here sounds like the best idea to me. It would be nice to have some more versatile Iocrym in the game.
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Re: Balancing Iocrym sentinels

Post by sun1404 » Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:35 am

The way the Sentinels are currently, I think they give off a sense of overwhelming strength to most players, while still leaving them a viable way to prevail. They're there to show the might of the Iocrym while not making victory completely impossible for the player.
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Re: Balancing Iocrym sentinels

Post by Peter » Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:42 am

True. The best way about it would be just to have someone make a good, quality, harder iocrym mod for experienced players and leave the current iocrym as it is.
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Re: Balancing Iocrym sentinels

Post by TheLoneWolf » Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:14 pm

That's why we need a hard mode.

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Re: Balancing Iocrym sentinels

Post by Peter » Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:31 pm

That's why we need a hard mode.
Maybe that's something someone could get onto. Maybe I'll give it a try, but I'm not the best modder, and I'm appalling at creating graphics xD
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Re: Balancing Iocrym sentinels

Post by TheLoneWolf » Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:33 am

Peter wrote:
That's why we need a hard mode.
Maybe that's something someone could get onto. Maybe I'll give it a try, but I'm not the best modder, and I'm appalling at creating graphics xD
Teach me transLISP. I'll do that.

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Re: Balancing Iocrym sentinels

Post by Peter » Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:46 pm

Teach me transLISP. I'll do that.
The easiest way to learn it is to look at the source (not the big overwhelming 2000 line sections of it, the small bits) or at other people's mods, and then go on IRC for help. IRC is the best :)

As for myself, I'm not very good at tLisp, but I'm passable. I don't think you'd even need it to create what this thread is discussing.
My dream is to one day discover that someone who plays transcendence lives near me and goes to my school. Then I can finally have a friend.
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Re: Balancing Iocrym sentinels

Post by TheLoneWolf » Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:02 pm

Peter wrote:
Teach me transLISP. I'll do that.
The easiest way to learn it is to look at the source (not the big overwhelming 2000 line sections of it, the small bits) or at other people's mods, and then go on IRC for help. IRC is the best :)

As for myself, I'm not very good at tLisp, but I'm passable. I don't think you'd even need it to create what this thread is discussing.
My C++ background should help.

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Re: Balancing Iocrym sentinels

Post by Peter » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:10 pm

My C++ background should help.
Have fun!

(it is actually pretty fun learning it, as long as you use the IRC to avoid going insane)
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Re: Balancing Iocrym sentinels

Post by gunship256 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:36 pm

Want to join the mod jam this month?

https://forums.kronosaur.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7604

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