THE GALACTIC ARENA!!!

General discussion for the game Anacreon
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Finnian
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:29 am

THE ARENA IS NOW APPEARED SOMEWHERE IN THE GALAXY!!! LET'S FIGHT AROUND IT!!

at the moment there are no rules but we will create it toghether.

Don't damage the empires around the Arena!
IN GEORGE WE TRUST

Watch TV, Do Nothing
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:34 pm

Where exactly is the arena?

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6cef
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:13 pm

Watch TV, Do Nothing wrote:Where exactly is the arena?
Draw a line from the Mandalorian capital to the Mesophon capital, it's closer to Mesophon.

About 500 light years east of the Mandalorians, a little north.

It's a single world creatively named "ARENA".

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Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:08 pm

That's pretty far from me; I guess I won't be sending any capital ships ;). If anyone has a a sector capital near there, it would be awesome if you could build a few citadels so that we can test how jumpmissiles interact with different kinds of fleets.

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catfighter
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Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:25 am

Watch TV, Do Nothing wrote:That's pretty far from me; I guess I won't be sending any capital ships ;). If anyone has a a sector capital near there, it would be awesome if you could build a few citadels so that we can test how jumpmissiles interact with different kinds of fleets.
Alrighty! I'll move in ASAP!

For those of you who can't find the Arena:
Anacreon_Galactic_Arena.jpg
Beta Server: Barricades Pact Galactic Arena
Anacreon_Galactic_Arena.jpg (177.37 KiB) Viewed 2008 times
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gc2
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Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:38 am

I see that there isn't much room around the arena.
I'm in the process of setting up a sector capital to the northeast of there, where there are a few more independent worlds.
Once that's done I'll set up some citadels and starship yards.
If anyone wants to test blowing up jumpships, I can provide some as well.

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Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:37 pm

Arena Combat Report

Summary: 29000 Undines attacked 28500 Minotaur gunships and were routed. Undines took 89% casualties before retreating, Minotaurs took 37% casualties. This was a 2:1 kill ratio in favor of Minotaurs.

Background: Finnian had a fleet of Minotaurs parked at the Arena, so I decided to test Undines against them. These ships have similar power (145 vs about 118), armaments (100 cannon vs 140 missile, both range:10), and industry cost. The Undine is much faster than the minotaur and can pass through nebulas, but it requires significantly more trillum and chronimium to manufacture and requires the yard to be supplied by a jumpship autofac (Minotaurs only need raw resources to build). You can see all their specs in my FAQ thread.

The Minotaur's armor is 50% stronger than the Undines, but each ship's attack is stronger than its opponent's armor. I think combat is deterministic, so this should mean that every ship's attack in both fleets will destroy an enemy 100% of the time. I don't know the intricacies of how combat really plays out, though.

I tried to keep the fleets equal in size but you never know the exact strength of the opponent until you engage in combat. Surprisingly, another fleet of Finnian's appeared to arrive during the combat but it was only a couple dozen Stingers and
Adamants and had no effect on the outcome.

Combat Report:

The attacking fleet was 7 wings of 4143 Undines, total fleet strength 34105
The defending fleet was 7 wings of 4071 Minotaurs, total fleet strength 41320 (about a 5:4 ratio in favor)
Arena planetary defenses didn't participate in the battle.

Both fleets started in high orbit and went inwards. Most combat took place with the gunships orbiting right above the planet, while the jumpcruisers fired down on them from a higher orbital at maximum weapons range for both fleets. This might be different from combat during invasions, where attacking fleets might try to stay out of range of defenses and fight defenders in high orbit. It would be worth comparing combat above a planet with strong defenses; we may have to do testing against fleets that are actually defending a planet rather than two fleets fighting above a nonaligned planet.

Undines got their butts kicked! The attackers started to auto-retreat at around 80% casualties and ultimately took 89% losses, with 3190 survivors. Another small fleet of about 800 Undines appeared at a neighboring star, I don't know if fleets split on retreat but I don't remember sending that fleet there! If that fleet was also part of the attackers, they 'only' took about 85% losses. Defenders took 37% casualties with about 18,000 survivors.

I want to repeat this experiment with the roles reversed: Minotaurs attacking Undines. I'll send about 29000 Undines; somebody attack them with Minotaurs and watch the fireworks!

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Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:56 pm

Watch TV, Do Nothing wrote:Arena Combat Report
Undines took 89% casualties before retreating, Minotaurs took 37% casualties. This was a 2:1 kill ratio in favor of Minotaurs.
That's interesting and probably makes sense.

If things are deterministic, and armor negates a certain amount of damage, then each of these ships should one-shot each other. However, the Undines are firing missiles, which are going to take some number of combat "ticks" before hitting the Minotaurs. Meanwhile the Minotaurs firing cannons are going to be destroying an Undine on each "tick", or at least on every tick where they fire. (Rate-of-fire does not seem to be a characteristic the game tracks.)

At least, that's what the battle would look like if you were watching it. Hard to know what's really going on under the hood.

I suspect the 89:37 losses would be a lot different if you had just a few more or less of each ship, but that doesn't change the take home to me: expect heavy losses when pitting Undines and Minotaurs against each other.

Side note: great arena report, WtvD0!

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catfighter
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Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:06 am

Watch TV, Do Nothing wrote:I want to repeat this experiment with the roles reversed: Minotaurs attacking Undines. I'll send about 29000 Undines; somebody attack them with Minotaurs and watch the fireworks!
I want to see if massed numbers of Sirius Gunships (with their tiny range) can tank for each other until they can get close enough to shoot back, so 20,000 minotaurs and 200,000 sirius' are on their way. This is gonna get real pretty real soon, so get out the sunglasses; the show is on! 8-)
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catfighter
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Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:21 am

Btw, I'm using my own ships to clear space forces around worlds throughout the galaxy. I want the Arena admin to do the same and conquer these worlds for the Arena to use as additional gladiator rings. TV complained about the Arena being too far away, so I'm going to set up rings near major borders so capital ships can be tested as well as jumpships. If any empire is willing to donate a world for use as a ring, please take forces off-world and let me know so the Arena fleet can move in! :)

For future planning purposes, we can refer to specific competitions like:

"Finnian Undine fleet VS Felor Adamant fleet @ Southern Rift Stadium; Finnian to attack; prize=35,000 eldritch jumpships"

I think this will be the easiest way to allow everyone to participate and plan things out. Plus there's going to be a lot of competition among the smaller empires for prizes in the form of high-tech ships/troops. :wink:
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Day 31: "I have successfully completed my time reversal experiment! Muahahaha!!!"
Day 30: "I might have run into a little problem here."

Wayward Device
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Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:38 pm

I'm sending 10,000 Gorgos to the Arena, should be there in another 2 cycles.

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Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:44 pm

I wasn't really complaining. I don't think there really need to be multiple arenas in different parts of the galaxy, things are pretty crowded as is. Right now it's impossible for new players to join because all the potential capitals are occuptied or surrounded.

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Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:06 pm

Arena Combat Report

Summary: 28000 Undines attacked <3000 Eldritches and were unable to cause any casualties whatsover.

Combat Report: We already knew how this one would turn out but it's always worth repeating: missile protection is really really good. Jumpcruisers seem to be totally incapable of damaging Jumpships, even when they outnumber them <9:1. This is probably also true for Hammerheads vs. Jumpships, since Hammerheads use missiles too for some inexplicable reason.

It would be worth repeating this with Jumpcruisers vs. Starfrigates, where the number of potential interceptions is lower and some missiles might conceivably get through.

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Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:58 am

Arena Combat Report

Summary: 18,000 minotaurs + 170,000 sirius' attacked remains of undine fleet

Combat Report: Something worth noting, sirius gunships attrition extremely fast. I lost 30,000 in 8 periods. It might be my eyes playing tricks on me, but I believe that the undine fleet started out with space forces of 64,000+. Sirius' can apparently tank very well and can destroy things rather quickly through massed fire; they took only 1% casualties because of the sheer number of ships. If I am correct about the undines, they retreated at a little over 90% casualties (6,000 space forces), but were destroyed completely by a last round of fire. If I am wrong about the strength of the undines, I'm an idiot and sirius' still tank well.

When the gorgos' eventually arrive, I'd like to fight them with what is left of the sirius' after two cycles of attrition to see if they can even get a single shot off against the gorgos' immense range advantage (8x the distance).

Also, if anyone has more undines or stingers , I'd like to pit them against each other. Missile defense can be overwhelmed by a large number of missiles, after which casualties increase exponentially, so I want to see exactly what the minimum number of stingers are required to touch the undines and then how many are needed to beat them.
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Day 31: "I have successfully completed my time reversal experiment! Muahahaha!!!"
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Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:06 pm

i'd like to see eldritch vs minotaur.

i can provide either.

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