rochambeau, or don't bring a knife to a gunfight

General discussion for the game Anacreon
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6cef
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if there's a planet with 15,000 gorgos frigates and you show up with a few ten thousand minotaurs and a few ten thousand jump cruisers and a few ten thousand eldritch and a few thousand victory and defiants, you know what's going to happen?

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR SHIPS IS GOING TO BE DESTROYED.

great, you've got a "space force" advantage. but that rating is meaningless in the tactical view. at that point, what's going to happen is the 15k gorgos that outrange every single one of your ships is going to destroy 15,000 ships in your fleet every time they fire, and none of your ships will ever get in range, and why are you bring jump cruisers against the strongest anti-missile ships in the game?

ok.

</rant>
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Finnian
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:mrgreen:
IN GEORGE WE TRUST
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Finnian
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:| sorry Lord Charm
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6cef
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Finnian wrote::| sorry Lord Charm
oh, this didn't happen to me. no, i showed up with a few ten thousand gorgos and captured the planet, basically saving the other fleet from a suicide mission. but i still got yelled at for "stealing" a planet. ;)
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catfighter
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6cef wrote:
Finnian wrote::| sorry Lord Charm
oh, this didn't happen to me. no, i showed up with a few ten thousand gorgos and captured the planet, basically saving the other fleet from a suicide mission. but i still got yelled at for "stealing" a planet. ;)
You are so evil! :wink: But it's good to know some emperors still have enough goodness in their hearts to keep big numbers big, even though those big numbers belong to other empires.

Which planet was it, btw? I haven't seen many with Gorgos except Third Earth and a couple of old Imperium worlds.
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Sinalost has 430,000 Gorgos-class parked on it.
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At the height of GalWar1, Sinalost had close too 1 million Gorgos parked on it. Still I'm not really sure what this thread is about. Um, Gorgos are the strongest ship in the Galaxy, people should know?
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catfighter
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And suppose a newb needed to find out? I don't really know either, but while we're at lets list every planet we know of that has gorgos. (I did mean non-player worlds, but what the heck let's get them all)

-Sinalost
-Third Earth
-New Mars
-that-certain-world-by-third-earth-who's-name-i-forgot (hehe...:roll: :oops: )
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Tons of planets have Gorgos, they're not exactly scarce.

Cyclops-class are nothing to sneeze at, either. Against jumpships they should perform comparably to Gorgos- their cannon has shorter range so they get fewer first strikes, but their armor is 57:1 against Eldritch cannon whereas the Gorgos is 34:1.

Cyclops are also probably stronger against gunships than Gorgos- they're missile-protected against the Hammerhead (Sirius-equivalent) and they're 27:1 against the Cerberus while Gorgos is only 12:1 against Minotaurs (and the Cerberus is more labor-intensive to build than the Minotaur.)

Capital ramjets don't compete with jumpships for chronimium and trillum; they move 5x as fast as capital starships; and they can be built in those little nebula pockets where starships can't go and other ramjet fleets can't pass into. Worlds in isolated nebula pockets that are defended by Cyclops would be very tough nuts to crack. Luckily, I started with my capital in just such a pocket ;)
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Interesting, I thought that Cyclops etc were just copy-paste starships for nebulas, didn't know that they had their own stats. How does the production time of Cyclops compare to Gorgos? How many can a certain type of world make each watch? I'm actually surprised that nobody has made an all-nebula empire with a just-Cyclops doctrine. With their speed it would be viable, although the crossing between different kinds of nebula bug would be a problem.
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Wayward Device wrote:Interesting, I thought that Cyclops etc were just copy-paste starships for nebulas, didn't know that they had their own stats. How does the production time of Cyclops compare to Gorgos? How many can a certain type of world make each watch? I'm actually surprised that nobody has made an all-nebula empire with a just-Cyclops doctrine. With their speed it would be viable, although the crossing between different kinds of nebula bug would be a problem.
Check my FAQ/guide thread, it has the whole rundown. The major differences between ramjets and starships:
  • Ramjets can only move in nebulas and sometimes can't cross different types/navigate rift zones.
  • In dark nebulas ramjets (and jumpships) are supposedly harder to detect- but they are definitely detectable.
  • Capital ramjets move 5x faster than capital starships.
  • Ramjets use aetherium and chtholon in lieu of trillum and chronimium.
  • Like trillum, aetherium only requires labor to produce; like chronimium, chtholon requires aetherium to produce.
  • Ramjets still require hexacarbide, which in turn requires trillum to produce.
  • All ramjets have stronger armor than their starship equivalents.
  • The Cyclops is the only ramjet whose attack is range:20; all other ramjets have range:10 weapons, which makes them vulnerable to planetary defenses (The Cyclops and Manta have missile protection though.)
  • The Hammerhead (low-tech gunship) uses range:10 missiles; its starship equivalent (Sirius) uses a range:5 cannon.
  • The Manta (low-tech starfrigate) only requires 1 component (heavy ramscoop); its starship equivalent (Defiant) requires 2 components.
  • The Typhon (high-tech starcruiser) doesn't have missile protection; its starship equivalent (Megathere) does
  • The low-tech Hammerhead and Manta have STRONGER attacks than their high-tech counterparts (Cerberus and Cerberus). However, their armor is significantly weaker; the Manta's attack is only range:10; and the Hammerhead's missiles make it less effective against jumpships and starfrigates.
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Did my own test with minotaurs vs gorgos, not going to post it to the arena thread since it's on one of Human Imperium's old worlds. I sent 106k minotaurs to fight against 7.5k gorgos on the planet (14:1 ratio). There were also 600 titan battlestations and 200 plasma towers, but I consider those to be negligible.

My minotaur fleet retreated automatically (didn't know they do that) when it got reduced to 19k. Casualties reached around 30% before the gunships moved into range. The gorgos fleet lost 2000 ships when the fight ended.

The first strike advantage wasn't as great as I had imagined. ~30-40k casualties means the gorgos only fired 4-5 collective shots before the gunships moved in. However, even after the minotaurs closed in, the gorgos can really abuse their range. During the battle they were basically shooting all the time, while the minotaurs can only sit idly and take fire whenever their target orbited to the opposite side of the planet.

I'll send another fleet of 100k gunships against the remaining 5500 gorgos for a >20:1 fight and see what happens. It's good to see that starfrigates are truly immovable walls when it comes to defense, as they're quite worthless on offense.
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As for nebular empires: There probably are no major nebula-only empires becayse not many empires start in nebulas; there are fewer planets in nebulas than outside them; nebulas tend to contain fewer Earthlike, Underground and Ocean planets; and the nebulas are so stringy or broken up by rift zones that it's hard to assemble good clusters of planets that can support one another without including planets outside the nebula.

There are a few empires that have big nebular presences. Nor and Dogeland are the two powers with big nebula infrastructure; of the two, Dogeland has the biggest fleets (he is the strongest empire in the galaxy right now after passing Republic of Reason a few days ago.) Charminium was T&I for a while and has a whole bunch of Mesophon-bought Cyclops fleets in the big central nebula, even though he has very few nebular worlds. Bismalia still has a gigantic ramjet fleet sitting at one of his sector capitals. Finally, the new empire "evil space pirates" is nebular-only.
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catfighter
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My new capital is pretty nicely situated in a pocket, but I'm making jumpships because the cluster is broken up by nebula color and there aren't enough worlds to keep it entirely inside the nebula.

While we're on the subject of ramjets, how about creating a new Arena in the Great Rift Nebula to play around with the things? (As long as everyone can make it, what with all the rifts and color shifts. :roll: )
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