Next Beta game start?

General discussion for the game Anacreon
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--Imperator--
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Next Beta game start?

Post by --Imperator-- » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:48 am

Now that 1.7 is out, I was wondering if the upcoming changes and/or bugfixes will be carried over to the existing Beta 2 game? Will the map be reset and the bugged empires deleted or will there simply be a new galaxy? It's just that I was considering restarting this week and wasn't sure if it'd be worth it if all my progress will be gone in a few weeks. Thanks!

Also: will the Anacreon update be focused only on fixing the major issues like the no-capital and repeating messages bugs, or will there also be some changes to game balance like OP Eldritch and Gorgos. IMO, some of the "cheese" tactics like infinitely splitting fleets or the explorer shield could be nerfed as well for the new game.

I know there isn't an ETA yet for the update and new map but I was also wondering that newcomers may be disadvantaged if they started later than the regulars who created empires as soon as the new game was announced on the forum (more time to build up ships, defences etc etc)
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Re: Next Beta game start?

Post by Xephyr » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:01 am

The focus is going to be on major bugs, but if you want to increase the chances of balance fixes, it would help your chances to quantify them as best you can.

I think WTV's very well done master list is probably a good start point for what should be fixed, and is possibly reasonable to fit into a couple weeks. This is probably what we should be pointing George to, but if you have more pressing issues that aren't included then we can work on figuring out what exactly needs fixing.
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Re: Next Beta game start?

Post by george moromisato » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:25 am

Almost all changes and fixes will be carried over to existing games/galaxies. One game server runs all games, so once the code is upgraded, all games will get the fixes.

The only exception is for things that need be done at create-time (like creating nebulae) or existing corruption in a game (which will have to be fixed manually).

Balance fixes (such as adjusting combat or construction values) are relatively easy, so I'm happy to do them if there is consensus. We can discuss such balance changes on the forums or on Ministry.

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Re: Next Beta game start?

Post by --Imperator-- » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:30 am

Yes, that's great news.

I've made a spreadsheet

(https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing)

to propose the new balance changes for Anacreon Beta 3. Feel free to edit it especially those who have been playing a long time. If everyone agrees with the spreadsheet that's what we should use going forward.
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Re: Next Beta game start?

Post by Xephyr » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:12 am

The only thing I don't agree with on the spreadsheet is HEL cannon balance. In my experience they're the only worthwhile planetary defense - I've never had issue invading a planet without them.
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Re: Next Beta game start?

Post by Watch TV, Do Nothing » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:35 pm

Imperator, I see you posted a list of suggested changes and then took it down because I had one up. However, there were a few things on your list that aren't on mine that I think merit consideration:

Deleting units on abdicated empires' worlds. I suggested that units be reset on the worlds that become new empires' capitals and l don't personally think completely removing all units from all worlds in an abdicated empire would be balanced solution either, but it is worth considering. Maybe starship fleets stationed at independent worlds could have higher attrition? In GalCiv 2 sometimes destroyed empires' fleets would join other empires or become pirates and fly around causing trouble, depending on the empire's doctrine. It's not directly comparable though since it was primarily a single-player game; the fleets involved would generally be pretty weak since big stable AI empires never just abdicated.

Allowing combat to continue when hopelessly outmatched. I suggested this for transports but I agree hat it makes sense to have it be the default for other fleet types when ordered to attack from an already weak position (fleets should not fight to the death if they are reduced to weakness during combat but entered the combat at close odds, and fleets they should not fight to the death if they are defending against an attack.) Combat does need to end at some point because you can get missile defense stalemate right now (there's a ticket about that.)

Nerf defection mechanics. Right now there isn't a ticket about infantry capture but I agree that the current system where you can come out of a battle with more infantry than you started with if you outnumber the enemy a lot is pretty frustrating. It penalizes players who don't continually consolidate all their infantry onto one planet. Either infantry capture should be reduced or eliminated, or amassing and maintaining large infantry forces should be more challenging (e.g. make them consume resources).

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Re: Next Beta game start?

Post by Watch TV, Do Nothing » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:52 pm

I've made some comments on the spreadsheet. I think a lot of issues with planetary defenses could be addressed by decreasing defenses' labor cost while increasing their mineral cost. Increasing their armor slightly (maybe not 10x) and increasing cannon range a little would also help. I think current damages done by defenses are fine; players need more units rather than more deadly units.

Shifting labor cost to the resources side will prevent independent worlds from building too-formidable defenses (since they also have to mine the resources locally), while players will be able to build strong defenses on productive worlds without reducing those worlds' output too much. (Instead, the empire as a whole will have to supply more resources.) There should still be one or two defense types that are labor-intensive rather than resource-intensive, for players who favor a less interconnected empire, but they should be lower-level defenses.

Maybe individual defense structures should be capped at 20 or 25% labor, so that players can't build 100% hypersonics on a planet to achieve insane defense strength via the efficiency bonus.

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Re: Next Beta game start?

Post by Finnian » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:33 pm

please, enable the buttons ''Deploy All'', ''Buy All'', Sell All'' :cry:
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Re: Next Beta game start?

Post by --Imperator-- » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:12 pm

Ok, I've made some edits to reflect that. WTV, if you have a table of labor or resource costs per unit of ships and defenses could you add that as well with proposed changes? Cheers.

Just one thing: how to make starcruisers actually useful, without major coding changes, just by editing their stats?
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Re: Next Beta game start?

Post by Watch TV, Do Nothing » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:59 pm

My tables are on another computer right now and it might be a while until I can get to them, but there are pictures of them are in my guide thread. I'm not positive that they are 100% accurate or up to date but they should be pretty close.

As for proposed changes, I'm not sure if I can quantify them quite yet, anything would only be a guess. Maybe I need to give it some more thought. I don't think I have all the answers.

As for making starcruisers better by altering their stats only: I'm not sure it's possible. In one of the early alphas I think starcruisers had longer range than starfrigates, like I think Victories had longer range than Defiances. If the range difference was enough to expose starfrigates to some defenses that starcruisers are immune to, that would render starcruisers somewhat more useful.

The big issue with starcruisers as I see them are the weird behavior of missiles (shorter than expected range and possibly targeting issues related to them not dealing instantaneous damage so that some missiles appear to get wasted being fired against targets that will be destroyed by other missiles that are already on the way), the lack of any targets with enough armor that the marginally higher damage of starcruiser missiles over starfrigate cannons would matter, the poor target selection that results in starcruisers firing ineffectually at missile protected wings, and the generally high effectiveness of starfrigates which are a strong counter to starcruisers that costs less. Starcruisers' only real advantage is their high armor, but in most battles starcruisers are usually not doing much or any damage so their armor feels barely relevant.

If there were some way within the current system to for individual starcruisers to fire multiple lower-damage missiles per combat round, they might be marginally more useful, since volume of fire is currently more important than damage/projectile. If gunships had stronger armor, starcruisers might be more useful as a mobile counter to them (right now Eldritches can fight gunships pretty well and it's hard to assemble big gunship fleets)- however, starfrigates are also quite effective against gunships and are cheaper...

My grand idea for starcruisers was that they would either be an offensive anti-construction unit (but there are no constructions right now) or that they would reduce incoming damage from cannon-type attacks, which would make them better as a defensive unit for fighting gunships (and that gunships would have multiple attacks/turn, which would make THEM better at fighting jumpships) and give jumpcruisers something to do (namely, attack starcruisers.) Maybe there is another way to make them interesting or useful, I just don't really know what it is.

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