Anacreon Era III Discussion Thread

General discussion for the game Anacreon
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SungSlaver231
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Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:43 am

Recent Galactic Events:

Empire of Eternal Night is expanding rapidly, capturing AelionRisen's worlds in the far left in the process. AelionRisen still maintains a stronghold on the right side of the map.

Carpathia has expanded into Talegin-Montressor Diarchy's space, causing TMD to declare war on Carpathia

Carpathia has attacked Saxophon Trader Union's sector capital located next to the capital of the Mesophons, potentially damaging the long history of neutrality of the STU.

TMD has started producing whales and exporting them to other empires.
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Watch TV, Do Nothing
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Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:44 pm

The rest of the galaxy should read that as "Talegin-Montressor Diarchy set up a jumpyard projecting force into the territory around Carpathia's sector capital, then savagely attacked Carpathia for no reason after Carpathia requested gunship passage in order to altruistically evict foreign invaders that had established toeholds within TMD's own territory."

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Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:24 pm

I've had some thoughts about war recently and I'd like to know what other people think.

Sector capitals

Free redesignation of sector capitals results in some undesirable outcomes:

1. If a sector capital is taken in war, typically several planets will defect with it. If player A and player B are at war, and Player A is about to take Player B's sector capital, Player B has an extremely strong incentive to redesignate the SC right before the invasion completes, in order to prevent Player A from getting any defections. That's a smart move, but it also discourages players from attacking other players that they know are currently playing, and only attack when they think their opponent is AFK.

2. A player can extend their jumpship operating area enormously while remaining in a non-Law & Order doctrine by progressively settling sector capitals and then redesignating them as jumpship yards once they fully develop.

A while ago, there was some discussion about whether defections should be kept as a mechanic. If defections are kept as a mechanic, I think it should not be possible to instantaneously redesignate a sector capital. It should be possible to decommission a sector capital (causing it to revert to an independent world or to a world of an appropriate type for the government- yards, hub, or infantry academy), but this should not be instantaneous.

Jumpbeacon mechanics

An important tactic in war is capturing enemy jumpyards to extend your own jumpship access to enemy worlds outside your sector capital control radius. This is because jumpship yards continue to project a jumpbeacon after they are captured, even if they are outside the control radius of a sector capital.

If your enemy has placed their jumpship yards within 300 LY of one another, it's possible to leapfrog through an enemy empire pretty fast as long as the yards aren't too heavily defended.

I don't know if this was desired behavior when George put jumpbecaons in. If it was, I feel that jumpship yards should continue to project a jumpbeacon for a couple hours after being redesignated. This is because, once again, if two players are active and fighting one another, the player being attacked has a strong incentive to redesignate their jumpship yards as they come under attack in order to prevent their enemy from getting additional jump access. Again, this incentivizes players to only attack empires whose players appear to be AFK and not to wage head-to-head war, which makes combat less thrilling.

You could argue that redesignation is a tactical move just like moving fleets, but it doesn't really make sense that a planet should behave totally mechanically differently at the push of a button- even fleets don't move instantaneously.

If jumpship yards leapfrogging was not desired behavior, then jumpship yards should not project a jumpbeacon when they are outside the control radius of a sector capital.

No matter what, I strongly feel that jumpship yards should not project a jumpbeacon immediately after being designated. They should only project a beacon after between 12 and 24 hours have passed. An apparently nonthreatening neighbor can morph into one capable of projecting power into the heart of your empire in an instant. That makes every nearby planet an existential threat, not just yards, since any planet in range of a sector capital can project a beacon at the press of a button (the redesignate button, specifically).

What do you think?

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SungSlaver231
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Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:07 am

Watch TV, Do Nothing wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:44 pm
The rest of the galaxy should read that as "Talegin-Montressor Diarchy set up a jumpyard projecting force into the territory around Carpathia's sector capital
to counteract the already existing jumpyard projecting force into my territory
Watch TV, Do Nothing wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:44 pm
, then savagely attacked Carpathia for no reason after Carpathia requested gunship passage
No such message was received. Additionally, gunship passage is not the same as establishing a citadel in my territory.
Watch TV, Do Nothing wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:44 pm
in order to altruistically evict foreign invaders that had established toeholds within TMD's own territory."
Long story:

- Reports of a Carpathian attack on Saxophon soil had arrived via the Terran Protectorate
- TMD started expanding into AelionRisen's western territory
- He let TMD keep some of it, and warned TMD to not take any worlds that were a part of a specific sector
- Empire of Eternal Night took the worlds in that specific sector
- Simultaneously, Carpathia had started expanding into TMD's Eridani sector (to be fair, it had lots of overlap with Carpathia's Pannonia sector)
- At this point, war with Carpathia seems like a good idea because people will root for the whale farmer over an aggressive anti-whale dictator
- EoEN left those worlds undefended for me to capture at a later date, understanding that those worlds were in my territory
- EoEN (correctly) warns that TMD will suffer heavy losses during the war
- TMD loses the war, Carpathia presents some peace terms
- Pepper Mint reports Carpathian attacks on their southwestern sector, makes alliance with TMD
- TMD presents their own peace terms revolving around peace between the Carpathians and the Saxophons, as well as the Carpathians and Pepper Mint

Watch TV, Do Nothing wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:24 pm
What do you think?
Perhaps this idea of "nothing happens instantly" should be extended to more things. For example, maybe it should take time to destroy a structure, during which it can still operate, but maybe at a reduced capacity.
The number 70 gets a package. It was a mailbomb, and 70 blew up into 7, 2 and 5
"Here have a snapple" "Yay food! *chomp* *clink* Ow!" "It's a apple infused with tin!"
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Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:53 am

Entertaining indeed are the squabbles of lesser powers. Chaos and conflict is a ladder, and the Imperium's violent past and present greatness is testament to this.

To the so-called Emperor of Aelion: Imperial battlefleets outnumber yours by more than 10 to 1 after your most recent defeat. Care to try again? Also, a warning to any empire which establishes capitals or beacons near Imperial space, (yes that especially includes our non aggression pact partner EoEn) they will be destroyed with extreme prejudice.

In other news, the ancient and feared Republic of Reason has risen ascendant. In game conversations have confirmed that Wayward Device is back. A galactic contender on par with the best of us, the Imperium will be watching their progress closely...

Delayed designation for jumpbeacons and capitals is an excellent suggestion. Perhaps 24 hours may be too much of a delay though. Let's add that one to the Era 4 wishlist if others agree?
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Watch TV, Do Nothing
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Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:32 pm

Watch TV, Do Nothing wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:24 pm
I've had some thoughts about war recently and I'd like to know what other people think.

Sector capitals

Free redesignation of sector capitals results in some undesirable outcomes:

1. If a sector capital is taken in war, typically several planets will defect with it. If player A and player B are at war, and Player A is about to take Player B's sector capital, Player B has an extremely strong incentive to redesignate the SC right before the invasion completes, in order to prevent Player A from getting any defections. That's a smart move, but it also discourages players from attacking other players that they know are currently playing, and only attack when they think their opponent is AFK.

2. A player can extend their jumpship operating area enormously while remaining in a non-Law & Order doctrine by progressively settling sector capitals and then redesignating them as jumpship yards once they fully develop.

A while ago, there was some discussion about whether defections should be kept as a mechanic. One issue is that defections seem random, while most of the other mechanics in the game are deterministic or have fairly predictable outcomes (combat, revolt).

If defections are kept as a mechanic, I think it should not be possible to instantaneously redesignate a sector capital. It should be possible to decommission a sector capital (causing it to revert to an independent world or to a world of an appropriate type for the government- yards, hub, or infantry academy), but this should not be instantaneous.

Jumpbeacon mechanics

An important tactic in war is capturing enemy jumpyards to extend your own jumpship access to enemy worlds outside your sector capital control radius. This is because jumpship yards continue to project a jumpbeacon after they are captured, even if they are outside the control radius of a sector capital.

If your enemy has placed their jumpship yards within 300 LY of one another, it's possible to leapfrog through an enemy empire pretty fast as long as the yards aren't too heavily defended.

I don't know if this was desired behavior when George put jumpbeacons in. If it was, I feel that jumpship yards should continue to project a jumpbeacon for a couple hours after being redesignated. This is because, once again, if two players are active and fighting one another, the player being attacked has a strong incentive to redesignate their jumpship yards as they come under attack in order to prevent their enemy from getting additional jump access. Again, this incentivizes players to only attack empires whose players appear to be AFK and not to wage head-to-head war, which makes combat less thrilling.

You could argue that redesignation is a tactical move just like moving fleets, but it doesn't really make sense that a planet should behave totally mechanically differently at the push of a button- even fleets don't move instantaneously.

If jumpship yards leapfrogging was not desired behavior, then jumpship yards should not project a jumpbeacon when they are outside the control radius of a sector capital.

No matter what, I strongly feel that jumpship yards should not project a jumpbeacon immediately after being designated. They should only project a beacon after between 12 and 24 hours have passed. An apparently nonthreatening neighbor can morph into one capable of projecting power into the heart of your empire in an instant. That makes every nearby planet an existential threat, not just yards, since any planet in range of a sector capital can project a beacon at the press of a button (the redesignate button, specifically).

What do you think?

gc2
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Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:36 am

Defection of any kind should definitely not be a mechanic. The advantage of attacking first is large enough as it is that there doesn't need to be any extra bonuses. Attacking AFK players is the best way to ensure victory and there certainly aren't any rules or even informal agreements that prevent such an action.
Players should definitely have an incentive to protect their sector capitals, but having the empire's forces flipping to the enemy's side if the planet is captured is way too harsh. Planets should have sector capital coverage, and there should be penalties if that coverage is taken away; something along the lines of halting all production, so someone wouldn't voluntarily redesignate a sector capital without a second thought.
Jumpship yards should not automatically function as jump beacons, the beacon should be a buildable structure on the planet, which gets destroyed upon capture. The defender can redesignate the yard to something else right before the planet is captured, but the attacking player can just designate it back immediately, provided that it's within sector capital coverage. However, the beacon will have to be rebuilt.

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Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:25 am

:shock: Aelions departed from the galaxy !
IN GEORGE WE TRUST

ikeaj
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Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:56 pm

--Imperator-- wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:12 am
Unfortunately the forum identities (if any) of most of these are unknown at present, but please do share who you are...
Greetings from the many peoples of the Terrene Protectorate! We are eager to carve out an honorable existence in this Grand Galaxy.

As the designated representative from the Protectorate, I would like to display a public show of gratitude to the Talegin-Montressor Diarchy for sending us the first whales and subsidizing the cost.

It seems to be "hip with the kids," so:
Down with Carpathia.

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Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:36 am

gc2 wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:36 am
Defection of any kind should definitely not be a mechanic. The advantage of attacking first is large enough as it is that there doesn't need to be any extra bonuses. Attacking AFK players is the best way to ensure victory and there certainly aren't any rules or even informal agreements that prevent such an action.
I think defections and secessions are an interesting feature and should be preserved. Opinions may differ, of course. Granted, the first strike advantage is extremely OP. This could be mitigated by further increasing the strength of planetary defenses. Most were already buffed in the Era 3 update, but perhaps their production cost could be decreased further? There has to be an incentive to build them on important worlds, more than just for the sake of some complementary firepower for the main defensive fleet.

In other news:

The sudden abdication of Aelion was very surprising, considering their stated vendetta not two days ago promising to rain destruction and chaos down on the galaxy. Best guess is they plan to restart so as to preserve their social order protection against larger empires. Otherwise, it may simply be that a cat sat on the keyboard and pressed the abdicate button.

Empire of Eternal Night has attacked Carpathia, presumably in retaliation for their wanton aggression against other empires. Their economy appears to be crippled with no intact hubs remaining. A good time to remind the many newer players who have joined recently: attacking a larger empire absolves them of any social order penalty they may have attacking you in return. So, don't. Unless you're confident of a swift victory by striking first.

Republic of Reason has expanded to 97 worlds, and Dark District X appears to have captured some key neutral worlds in the middle of their territory. Time will tell if this will lead to conflict between the two powers. Note: Distrct X's fleets are concerningly small for its size...

Imperium continues to press its claim of sole dominion over the north, bringing them into conflict with EoEN. So far, no Eternal Night retaliation has been observed, they appear to be massing fleets at their capital, and possibly waiting for reinforcements from the southern jumpship fleet that attacked Carpathia. The Imperium stands ready...

TMD has not exported very many whales at all to the Imperium. How unfortunate.
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Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:52 pm

--Imperator-- wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:36 am
TMD has not exported very many whales at all to the Imperium. How unfortunate.
Whales are in short supply due to war moving resources from whale farms to shipyards. We greatly apologize for any inconvenience, dissatisfaction, or civil wars this may have caused.
The number 70 gets a package. It was a mailbomb, and 70 blew up into 7, 2 and 5
"Here have a snapple" "Yay food! *chomp* *clink* Ow!" "It's a apple infused with tin!"
*Knock Knock* "Who's there?" "THE DOOR!"

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Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:37 am

--Imperator-- wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:36 am
it may simply be that a cat sat on the keyboard and pressed the abdicate button.

Schrödinger's cat had a bad case of Murphy's at launch time.
Fire, Fire, Fire;
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Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:32 am

TheBugKing wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:37 am
--Imperator-- wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:36 am
it may simply be that a cat sat on the keyboard and pressed the abdicate button.

Schrödinger's cat had a bad case of Murphy's at launch time.
the galaxy miss you
IN GEORGE WE TRUST

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