Oddities when attacking

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starxplor
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Oddities when attacking

Post by starxplor » Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:54 am

So, a couple of things have come up:
1) A fleet with only Udine ships ordered to attack a planet with sub 1K GDM and usb 1K HEL will immediately 'fail' the attack and revert to orbiting after dropping a few missiles. It is like they do not see believe there are still defences left to destroy.
2) Udine ships have a range of 20 yet they move down to an orbit of 12 when attacking GDM and HEL defences... defeating the purpose of the longer range than HEL (15). In an attack, a player should never lose a single Udine ship to GDM and HEL defences only.
EDIT: 3) Udine ships attacking autocannons in orbit start out in orbit high enough to not be targeted but to immediately start dropping missles (22.1), yet they move close enough to be targeted by the cannons when ordered to attack. With the higher range, Udines should never be lost to auto cannons either.

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Watch TV, Do Nothing
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Re: Oddities when attacking

Post by Watch TV, Do Nothing » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:16 pm

For 1, I assume this is a tiny fleet? The game compares either fleet power or ship count during combat and if one fleet is too "small" it tries to escape, even if it is effectively immune to the enemy.

2 & 3 - yeah, I've noticed this too. In practice there actually are times when you might want to move otherwise-immune attackers within range of a defense structure- for example, if there are lots of attackers and only a few defenders, attacking from max range will take much longer to clear the defenders because it takes longer for the attacker to complete an orbit. If the planet is being defended by two types of defenses and the attackers only outrange one of them and they target the defense that they outrange first, they will take a lot more casualties from the other defense class. Same story for a planet defended by both defenses and ships. Another case where speed of destruction is more important than immunity is when a reinforcement fleet is en route. However, in a lot of combat immunity could be attained but isn't. There could probably be some sort of algorithm written to help attackers decide whether to perform a cautious or aggressive attack- the game may already do this, but it might need to be rewritten to account for the new distribution of ranges since there were no R:15 or R:25 attacks before.

starxplor
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Re: Oddities when attacking

Post by starxplor » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:27 pm

The fleet I was attacking with was listed with a power level 3-4 times the defence forces. It was 800+ udines vs 400-600 each of GDM and HEL.

I understand there may be times a player wants to override immunity, but that should be a player action, not the default.

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Re: Oddities when attacking

Post by Watch TV, Do Nothing » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:38 pm

I had a similar experience. A fleet of ~1000 Cerberuses and ~30,000 Eldritches with Reliant transports and a separate scout fleet of 62 vanguards attacked an independent TL10 world with 12,000 GDMs. As soon as the Vanguards were destroyed, the attack failed.

I wondered if an attack/invasion would fail if any attacking fleet is destroyed before other units enter combat, but I performed two further attacks on different worlds with two different fleets - the attacks persisted after the vanguard fleets were destroyed, so I don't think this is the underlying cause.

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Re: Oddities when attacking

Post by --Imperator-- » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:00 pm

I noticed that when attacking high TL worlds fleets start at much higher orbit compared to attacking lower TL worlds. Has anyone else seen this? Also when attacking nebular worlds fleets seem to start at much lower orbit. Makes it easier when starting out in higher orbit, otherwise the extremely intelligent Undine jumpcruiser captains decide to bring their damn ships within range of GDMs when they could just as well pick them off from 20Mm range...

I always seem to take 5-10% casualties when assaulting any world now, and when trying to take an entire sector that adds up fast. That could be a good thing though, at least planetary defences are more useful.
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Re: Oddities when attacking

Post by TheBugKing » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:48 am

--Imperator-- wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:00 pm
I always seem to take 5-10% casualties when assaulting any world now, and when trying to take an entire sector that adds up fast. That could be a good thing though, at least planetary defenses are more useful.

This may actually be part of what George was talking about when he mentioned slowing down empire growth. Personally I used to be able to take out a sector in about half a day, 1-2% casualties per world. I'm not sure if these tactics the A.I. are using are bugs that came out through the tweaking everyone wanted or if George added a few things he didn't tell anyone about though. It really seems to me there should be an A.I. over hall in the next sweep through that he does. The A.I. seems to be increasingly unfriendly to use.
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