Suggestion: best practices for patching others'/older mods

[WillyTheSquid]

So, I have done extensive tweaking to many mods I've downloaded over the months. From rebalancing to adding new graphics to insuring compatibility with the latest Transcendence beta version to adding inter-mod compatibility.

This has got me thinking. Feel free to shoot me down, but I think we can make life a lot more fun and interesting for modders and players if we establish a "best practice" in the community where it is acceptable to release updates to long-time, inactive users' outdated, free mods that are not compatible with more recent Transcendence betas. Similarly, a "best practice" of not making a big deal out of it if someone patches your mod for new graphics or rebalancing.

The idea is if ONLY the (re-)released files are to be included in the patch/update: the files you have personally changed. So you need both the original mod AND this has the advantage that due credit is automatically given through this process. Another idea: make it semi-mandatory that a list of specific changes to the original is included as well. And, of course, modders can make their preference known if they don't want to participate in this so they can still retain control of their creations.

What do you all think? I realize this could be a divisive issue, but I see a lot of room for improvement here.

[Star Weaver]

Dunno, I'd worry that someone would delete the older mod cause it was broken or something.

[WillyTheSquid]

Good point, the only thing that could counteract this is effective co-ordination of Xelerus.de moderation among the active moderators.

[alterecco]

Personally I am all for this. I would never hold it against someone that they updated a mod i made, if correct credits are given. We don't want to create a patent hell...

[Star Weaver]

Too bad we can't rely on everyone to have diff, patch, and a consistantly shaped extensions folder layout.

[RPC]

We don't want to create a patent hell.

I agree. I guess the next step would be to write a set of procedures and vote over it?
We'd have to think about how long counts as being as "being away", etc.

[Star Weaver]

Always try PMing the person first. Even if they aren't active, they might respond if they're still getting email on the account. Xelerus PMs go straight to their associated email anyway.

What I did just now re: a mod that me and RPC patched of Styro's, is, I looked up Styro on the forum member list and first noticed that they'd at least logged in in the past couple months (the last visit time shown includes lurking, at least if you let yourself be visible when logged in, haven't tested otherwise).

Then I sent them a PM, and got a response back fairly shortly along the lines of "do whatever ye like, i've moved away from modding here"

[Star Weaver]

Here's an example of what I think might be good form for patching a mod from a known active person, for interim and/or minor fixes.

http://xelerus.de/index.php?s=mod&id=918

In this case, I was already in the mod's code fixing some stuff for personal reasons, and I figured I'd pass it on when I was done. I know SDW's kind of busy right now, and none of the things I changed are fixes to serious problems, so I just wanted to put it up there for when he has time to look at it. Other interested people can download the patched file in the interim, of course, but there's nothing to take away from the original mod and (at least in cases where there's more than one file to the original mod) they can't just download the patch and skip the original.

[RPC]

Ooh nice Starweaver! I'll look at the changes and update my extensions accordingly.

[WillyTheSquid]

Good. Am very pleased to see this is being discussed seriously. We'll see where it goes from here. Thanks all for participating so far!!

[Song]

Being able to update the better Xelerus mods (there are some real gems from the 0.95-through-0.99c days, and many no longer work) and then mass-move the rest into the "Obsolete" or "broken" categories would help people choose mods better. We'd have to be careful about what constitutes an "abandonware" mod, but yeah.....losing stuff because the author moved on is annoying. Might not be feasible to update everything, but the best things, things that still improve the game? Sure, it's fine by me.


Personally, I put lines in my release XML files saying something along the lines of "If I'm not on the OTF for 4 months, the mod's open to everyone to update, modify or use as templates. Otherwise, please don't copy without talking to me."

[alterecco]

Personally i have chosen to use the Unlicense for my mods. However, it is a very liberal license, so I can understand someone might want a bit more control. It all depends on the nature of the mod i guess.

[WillyTheSquid]

I agree with every point you made, Shrike. Good call on adding comments about when it becomes abandonware.

Personally speaking, there are a few candidate mods I have my eye on. Much of the item packs is already integrated into ArmorPack and Reactor&DrivePack and MiscDevicePack (I really need to come up with catchier names; my inner poet is weeping silently). All of these with rebalanced stats and custom graphics.

Some need more work, but have beautiful graphics or unpolished ideas. Check the Sebenka-Wolf playership mod... Imagine that updated to 1.08b, tweaked for balance & fully compatible with Playership Drones v5. Drooool...

http://xelerus.de/index.php?s=mod&id=159

[digdug]

This is a discussion I had on IRC in the early days (mid 2008 I think), what should we do in the future when some old mods on Xelerus stops working or are incompatible with future versions of Transcendence ? We didn't find a solution at the time, because most modders were around updating their mods, and the community was much smaller and the problem wasn't as large as it is now.
However I remember that we all agreed that preserving the mods and avoiding to delete them was the best action to do.

Now I think that the situation changed. People wants to go to Xelerus, download a working mod and have fun. End users must not be bothered by Transcendence version or cross compatibility between mods.

I believe that the situation will move to a next phase when George will create/setup Official Mods. Probably many modders will move their best mods to Official Mods status, letting them to be downloaded by the ingame menu. Xelerus will probably return to its original purpose: to show extension examples and script examples to the modders community.

I like what Starweaver is doing but I understand it's not the best solution to have a dropbox link into the comments with an updated mod.

I propose this, let's make a sticky thread with unofficially (as in not endorsed by the owner) updated mods where modders can post variants and patched versions of mods.

Lastly, about my own mods, I would be extremely happy if someone updated them. I would let the guy upload the new version to Xelerus and I would delete my old version of the mod.

[WillyTheSquid]

Thanks for your reply, digdug! I agree that a dropbox link is not optimal; my gut feeling tells me most users won't scroll down the comments when downloading a mod. We could summarize this discussion on a wiki page, and also make a page (possibly add a Xelerus category) for unofficially updated player-made mods. A parallel (sticky) forum topic would also be worth considering.

Another idea: have a list of permissions on the wiki. "Feel free to use/update my stuff" or "ask permission first" etc etc -- for each user.

When this discussion has run its course, and some consensus has been reached I'm willing to make these wiki pages (& if support exists for it, a Xelerus category). And curate them for the foreseeable future.

Let me know what you all think.