realistic archcolony

[Drako Slyith]

As everyone probably knows, Transcendence has a massive Archcolony around Incandescenct. This got me thinking of the practical possibility of making one. I thought of some ideas for it:
A. It needs to be completely self sufficient. Water, energy, food, all must be recycled.
B. It needs to have a infinite recycling of air (oxygen - CO2, CO2 - Oxygen)

Thinking of power generators, I found a simple solution to the power requirement. The Earth is like a giant magnet, rotating in space. Generators work by moving a magnet inside a coil of wire, or moving a wire around a magnet. A coil of wire orbiting the Earth would create massive amounts of energy, because the amount of energy produced is a factor both of speed and scale. Speed is not high, but scale is massive. Build the station, then put a coil of wire wrapping around the inside of it. I had thought of this as a possible way of solving the energy crisis on Earth, but getting the energy to earth would be like jumping out of one train onto a faster train going the opposite direction. Thats actually essentially what it would be. But the coil could easily power the rest of the station. Another problem is it cost massive amounts of money and fuel to send supplies up into space, so the station would have to be self sufficient. A way to simultaneously solve the problems of food and air is to have a large portion of the station dedicated to be a self sustained ecosystem, providing both trees for air, fruit for food, and animals living in the ecosystem for meat. Water is a problem long ago solved: none leaves the ship. All water is recycled. Gravity is easy, just spin the station to increase centripetal force and simulate gravity.

Problems: mostly, a project this size would drain the treasuries of all countries combined. It is incredibly expensive. Also, the Earth just doesn't have as much metal and alloy available for a station that huge. The ore would have to be mined from the asteroid belt, so even more expenses.
Also, the politics would have to be sorted out. Every country would have to help, and as a result all countries would share it. But who decides what the laws are? One solution is to divide it into sections, each country has a certain section. Also, it could be declared a sovereign state, the first country entirely in space.

Benefits: It would be the largest engineering project undertaken since the Great wall of China, but more than that it would be housing to millions, maybe even billions. The Earth is getting overcrowded, no way around it. The estimated max population on the Earth is around 8 billion. Currently, I think we are pushing 6.5 billion. We don't have much space left. Colonizing space is the only solution, and a self sufficient archcolony would be the first step. This would also be the first civilian colony in space.

[Aury]

Arcology you mean?

Since the subject of the st.k one came up, I must point out that given current in-game graphical comparisons, the st.k's arco is much smaller than a CW metro station, which has always rather bugged me >.>

[digdug]

Thinking of power generators, I found a simple solution to the power requirement. The Earth is like a giant magnet, rotating in space. Generators work by moving a magnet inside a coil of wire, or moving a wire around a magnet. A coil of wire orbiting the Earth would create massive amounts of energy, because the amount of energy produced is a factor both of speed and scale. Speed is not high, but scale is massive. Build the station, then put a coil of wire wrapping around the inside of it. I had thought of this as a possible way of solving the energy crisis on Earth, but getting the energy to earth would be like jumping out of one train onto a faster train going the opposite direction. Thats actually essentially what it would be. But the coil could easily power the rest of the station.

Something very similar has been already tested by NASA on mission STS-75 by deploying an electrodynamic tether from the space shuttle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STS-75
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tethered_Satellite_System
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrodynamic_tether

The system basically generates energy by taking it from the planet ionosphere.
So your idea is feasible in theory.

---
About recycling: I believe that a modern social system should recycle everything and/or process any time of waste. The only limit to this type of technology is energy and economics.
As far as I can see, in Trascendence, megawatt power technology is relatively low tech, cheap and easy to access for nearly anybody. With such a cheap power, recycling becomes something different. What in today society is considered waste, it can be a main resource in Transcendence.

Let's consider a simple example: rocks. Silicates are ubiquitous minerals found everywhere we looked (planets, asteroids, comets). Given enough (and cheap) energy silicates are a perfect source of high grade silicon, oxygen and metals (Fe, Mg, Mn, Ca in primis).

At the end, a closed system with perfect recycling is self-susteinable and a working idea.
However a space habitat is not a closed system as the human population is constantly increasing, requiring more and more supplies and materials. Unless you want to do a "soylent green" approach, of course

[EDIT] This is a good reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_habitat

[Drako Slyith]

At the end, a closed system with perfect recycling is self-susteinable and a working idea.
However a space habitat is not a closed system as the human population is constantly increasing, requiring more and more supplies and materials. Unless you want to do a "soylent green" approach, of course

True. But what you have incoming is solar energy, which can then be filtered to a safe level, and is used to grow the ecosystem, inside of which is the air recycling, food source, and 'waste' dump. The food grows with the people. Eventually, of course, it would be too many people for the station to hold, in which case they either build another or colonize a planet. The point is it gives humans breathing space until a permanent solution can be found.

Let's consider a simple example: rocks. Silicates are ubiquitous minerals found everywhere we looked (planets, asteroids, comets). Given enough (and cheap) energy silicates are a perfect source of high grade silicon, oxygen and metals (Fe, Mg, Mn, Ca in primis).

Possibly, it could get its metals from Earth, but I didn't want to do this for several reasons:
1. Cost. While it would be easy to mine them, the problem is getting them to space. It is incredibly expensive in fuel and money to get anything to space, and that much ore would bankrupt every country on Earth. Mining the asteroid belt would take more time, but save money because they can bring it directly back to the station construction.

Another point I forgot to mention is that with low gravity, it would be an excellent place to launch ships from. Instead of having to burn most of their fuel to get out of Earth's gravity. For materials, they could have drones who just fly back and forth to the Asteroid belt and mine it for ores, fly it back to the station, then go back. A ship is built on the station, then launched from the station. No air resistance also means they can build it in any shape they want; a cube has massive carrying capacity per unit of materials.

[blizgerg]

At the end, a closed system with perfect recycling is self-susteinable and a working idea.
However a space habitat is not a closed system as the human population is constantly increasing, requiring more and more supplies and materials. Unless you want to do a "soylent green" approach, of course

I think the robots sent us a pie! You know I love my soylent green.

[Ttech]

At the end, a closed system with perfect recycling is self-susteinable and a working idea.
However a space habitat is not a closed system as the human population is constantly increasing, requiring more and more supplies and materials. Unless you want to do a "soylent green" approach, of course

I think the robots sent us a pie! You know I love my soylent green.

Ok, you just pulled the worst line ever.

[blizgerg]

Ok, you just pulled the worst line ever.

Thank you.

[Ttech]

Ok, you just pulled the worst line ever.

Thank you.

Glad I could help.

[ThePrivateer]

Odd. I thought I had posted in this thread already... Oooookaaayyyy.

In any case, this seems like an awesome idea, and I would love to go up in space in something like that. But, it's far too expensive to build, so it would take a long time for the cost and technology to meet at an agreeable amount to make it viable. Or, we have to wait 'til the Earth is so far down the rabbit-hole that the world leaders have nothing to do but try to make something like this.

TBH, I think Mars will come first, but again, it will require some kind of new nation or joint-nation agreement. Say, the European Union. But then, the americans, australians etc will get annoyed because we're not in the Union. So a new union needs to be made - but who governs that, what rules are there, how does Earth affect it etc...

It all works in theory, but when you get to the nitty-gritty of it (from a political point of view, not just technological and economical), it starts become too complicated, so everyone just rolls their eyes and stick their head in the sand so they won't see the rising ocean coming towards them.

[Drako Slyith]

All you say is true, but I would like to point out that both U.S. and Australia, and most other world powers are in the United Nations. Also, I thought of some methods for building it.
1. Set up a semi-permanent settlement on the moon near the poles. This settlement could be automated with no personnel, or could be manned, it is irrelevant. This settlement could mine both ores and the heavy hydrogen supply in the poles. The hydrogen could power the station (+ solar pannels, of course). It then refines the ores into the building materials and pure hydrogen. A fleet of automated ore carriers could be created which run between the moon, where they are refueled and filled with metals, then returns to the station being built, where the metals are used to build one segment at a time. This would be expensive, but could be feasible with our current technology and could be done by a coordinated effort. It could take several years, but the moon is the way to go; it has hydrogen supplies, and incredible ore deposits. Also, with no atmosphere and low gravity, it would take relatively low fuel to power them. Once the station is completed, it can power ion engines on more ore bots, or colony ships, making it a brilliant shipyard. Rather than spend the fuel to build and launch ships on earth, it could be done in space.

[ThePrivateer]

All you say is true, but I would like to point out that both U.S. and Australia, and most other world powers are in the United Nations. Also, I thought of some methods for building it.
1. Set up a semi-permanent settlement on the moon near the poles. This settlement could be automated with no personnel, or could be manned, it is irrelevant. This settlement could mine both ores and the heavy hydrogen supply in the poles. The hydrogen could power the station (+ solar pannels, of course). It then refines the ores into the building materials and pure hydrogen. A fleet of automated ore carriers could be created which run between the moon, where they are refueled and filled with metals, then returns to the station being built, where the metals are used to build one segment at a time. This would be expensive, but could be feasible with our current technology and could be done by a coordinated effort. It could take several years, but the moon is the way to go; it has hydrogen supplies, and incredible ore deposits. Also, with no atmosphere and low gravity, it would take relatively low fuel to power them. Once the station is completed, it can power ion engines on more ore bots, or colony ships, making it a brilliant shipyard. Rather than spend the fuel to build and launch ships on earth, it could be done in space.

United Nations...I forgot!

Are you sure you really want to be messing around with the moon? We really don't know what the effect on Earth's tides the moon has, but surely taking mass out of it (by mining ore) and drilling it into etc, could be devestating. We're all afraid of drowning just because the weather is going to get warm, which is scary enough, but the moon has massive effects on tide - just look at what happens with full moon/new moon tides etc.

Another planet is less likely to cause trouble - Mars for instance. I'm sure that hot rock has tons of stuff to drill up, and it won't affect earth in any particular way, considering the distance involved.

[Drako Slyith]

First, the moon is immense. The ore necessary is not even scratching the surface. Though the station is massive, it is essentially hollow. Also, we do know what affect the moon has on the tides; gravity is a constant determined by the mass of an object. Reducing the mass of the moon would actually cause the tides to go down, so we would actually solve the 'drowning' problem (Actually, the polar ice isn't melting; one side melts, the other grows. Also, the poles go through stages where they cover half the Earth and are virtually gone.) The orbits are much more stable than many people think; a reduction of mass means the orbit shortens by infintesimal amounts, then becomes stable. If taking ore from a planet endangered the orbits or other factors, then why is the world sending thousands of tons of metals into space as probes, stations, ships, and satellites.
Though mars is likely to get less resistance, it has 1/2 Earth's gravity, not 1/6. Meaning any ships would have to expend 3x the fuel to get out, meaning the fuel tank would have to be 3x bigger, reducing the amount or ore it can carry. Also, mars is very far away, so it would take dozens of times longer and would thus be much more expensive. Mars does not have the concentrated ores and hydrogen that are on the moon. The moon is the more logical choice, because it is closer, and is much richer in ores than most other planets. Venus is out of the question; it would take a much stronger ship to resist the pressure, and the base would dissolve in the acidic atmosphere.

[ThePrivateer]

First, the moon is immense. The ore necessary is not even scratching the surface. Though the station is massive, it is essentially hollow. Also, we do know what affect the moon has on the tides; gravity is a constant determined by the mass of an object. Reducing the mass of the moon would actually cause the tides to go down, so we would actually solve the 'drowning' problem (Actually, the polar ice isn't melting; one side melts, the other grows. Also, the poles go through stages where they cover half the Earth and are virtually gone.) The orbits are much more stable than many people think; a reduction of mass means the orbit shortens by infintesimal amounts, then becomes stable. If taking ore from a planet endangered the orbits or other factors, then why is the world sending thousands of tons of metals into space as probes, stations, ships, and satellites.
Though mars is likely to get less resistance, it has 1/2 Earth's gravity, not 1/6. Meaning any ships would have to expend 3x the fuel to get out, meaning the fuel tank would have to be 3x bigger, reducing the amount or ore it can carry. Also, mars is very far away, so it would take dozens of times longer and would thus be much more expensive. Mars does not have the concentrated ores and hydrogen that are on the moon. The moon is the more logical choice, because it is closer, and is much richer in ores than most other planets. Venus is out of the question; it would take a much stronger ship to resist the pressure, and the base would dissolve in the acidic atmosphere.

I see I'm talking to a real space-guru here!

Well, excuse my simple space knowledge, for you seem to have answered all my questions... it sounds like you have it all worked out! in that case, let's go build a archcolony!

[Drako Slyith]

Of course, there is still the problem of getting all the people on the station somehow...

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Ok kids, just get into the giant slingshot and hold your breath...

[blizgerg]

After my orbital cannons are complete, I shall shoot for WORLD DOMINATION!!!!11one

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!