Particle Physics Isn't That Hard Actually

Talk about anything not related to Transcendence.
Jay2Jay
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Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:17 pm

So I googled cold fusion yesterday, and since then I've been learning particle physics one particle at a time. It has taken me thirty minutes to understand mesons, bosons, Kaons, Superfluidity, viscosity, Baryons, Hadrons, up/down quarks, strange quarks, charm quarks, muons, colors/anticolors, spin, and the antiquarks of all the quarks I can now identify.

I dont necissarily know any formulas, but I am gathering information on the basics first, why I haven't done this before, I don't know, seems like fourth graders could learn this stuff... ANyway but if any of you actually know anything about particle physics or just want to talk about it feel free to drop some knowlege on me. But careful, Im not that smart Im only 15 so try not to use too big of words.

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Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:42 pm

Everything I've ever needed to know to win at Jeopardy I've learned from a videogame. There's a lot to be learned from the psuedo science in a lot of 4x games, and for history the various Civ games are unbeatable.

Vachtra
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Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:55 pm

There are a few things about particle physics that I find a little funny.

1. If you can break a particle down to it's smallest component what you have must still have mass no matter how many "0"'s you have to put in front of the number to get there. It also has to have volume. these are the rules of it existing in the physical universe and we have no reason to believe it doesn't.

2. Even after you get down to this most minute basic block of matter it can still be divided since anything with a width, no matter how small, can be split in two. I'm not saying we know how just that it's possible.

3. Everything that has been observed is through gadgets made to observe something they wanted to find once you get to such a small scale. This means the names of things are really what they call it when they see the whateverscope jiggle like so or shows a spike on some graph.

4. Some of the particles, or carriers, are only hypothetical. There is no proof they even exist.

5. Even particle physicists don't agree on several points. Example: String theory is only supported by some of them.

That being said you can look at a study sheet and everything there is pretty easy to comprehend but even a good study sheet will let you know that there are a lot of guesses and missing data that they really can't prove. In the end it really doesn't matter if the spin of a meson is 0 or 1, my sandwich won't taste any different.
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Jay2Jay
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:18 am

Yay, people responded. I also find these things interesting. Also I have a theory about the graviton, what if it doesn't exist, but mass itself is the force carrier for gravity?

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Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:19 pm

That still leaves the question of how gravity can affect things not touching the gravity source. If we say graviton particles exist, then the movement and interaction of the gravitons can be used to explain the matter.
(I think that's the main reason people think gravitons exist. Not absolutely sure, of course.)
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:01 pm

Schroedinger's cat

I have been reading of Schroedinger's cat
But none of my cats are at all like that.
This unusual animal (so it is said)
Is simultaneously live and dead!
What I don't understand is just why he
Can't be one or other, unquestionably.
My future now hangs in between eigenstates.
In one I'm enlightened, the other I ain't.
If you understand, then show me the way
And rescue my psyche from quantum decay.
But if this queer thing has perplexed even you,
Then I will and won't see you in Schroedinger's zoo.

(it's actually about particle physics lol)

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Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:07 pm

You put a cat in a box that perforce has no air holes* and left it there long enough to write a poem and post it. Of course it's dead.

* otherwise you'd be observing by smell
Literally is the new Figuratively

Vachtra
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:59 pm

About the cat. It's not that it is or isn't alive but the one word you used, "unquestionably" that is at issue. Opening the box proves if it's dead or alive but whether it's dead or alive does not depend on your knowledge.

On the point of gravatons I don't believe they exist at all just as magnatons don't exist. See how I just made up a word. Anyone can do it. Magnets don't rely on particles why should gravity. There is a direct link between mass and the pull of both though. The larger the magnet of the same type the greater the pull. Likewise the greater the size of an object the greater the gravity. Gravity may well be a weak but far reaching form of magnetism. In general magnetism is used to refer to attraction.
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Atarlost
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:48 pm

Vachtra wrote:About the cat. It's not that it is or isn't alive but the one word you used, "unquestionably" that is at issue. Opening the box proves if it's dead or alive but whether it's dead or alive does not depend on your knowledge.
And here you demonstrate you do not even begin to grok QM. The behavior in question has been conclusively demonstrated. Not with cats since cats are too large to avoid rapid wave function collapse, but with superposition is the basis for quantum computing and the work thereon has demonstrated conclusively that superposition of states actually happens.
Literally is the new Figuratively

Jay2Jay
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Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:33 am

What he said.

Vachtra
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Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:06 pm

"Grok", interesting choice of words. If I did grok the subject I would then not be able to really understand or explain the subject correctly due to being too close to the subject to be objective. It is those who do grok the subject who can't really see what is happening due to being too close. Only after separating yourself from the subject can you really observe and understand the limits of observation.
Simply put, if you are part of the subject you are observing then the thing you observe changes as you observe and you affect the outcome. Typically this is called contamination.

edit: This is one of the reasons why it is looked down on to experiment on yourself. It may give flawed results.
Last edited by Vachtra on Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sun1404
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Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:10 pm

I started to stop understanding right after the Butler's post ends.... :lol:
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Vachtra
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Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:25 pm

Read up on the double slit experiments again. It is interesting to note that when particles were shot through the slits the only thing being detected were the particles and not waves.

The resulting interference pattern can easily be explained not because an electron is passing through two slits at the same time but because electromagnetic waves (not actually created in the lab but still existing) still create this interference pattern. The electrons just ride these waves in and let us see it.
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Atarlost
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Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:50 pm

The fun part is that if you nondestructively measure which slit the photon passes through you stop getting the wave pattern.
Literally is the new Figuratively

Vachtra
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Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:21 pm

This is to say it was a nondestructive observation. The mere act of observing though is destructive otherwise it would not be observed. To observe is to have an interaction showing presence, this will without fail destroy something.
Methods of observing have a wide variety of effects on an object being observed. In the case of small particles you have to have something bounce off of them or have the object interact with a field. In any case the object being observed is affected which will alter the results. The lack therefore of the wave pattern is expected.
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