UNID (off topic)

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UNID (off topic)

Post by Vachtra » Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:09 pm

Reading the forums and came across something I hadn't thought about much, how people say UNID out loud. This may be reading into it a little.

From: [george] How to specify manufacturer tag on items
Yes, it should work with any top-level design type (basically, anything with an UNID).
Typing an UNID is to say you pronounce it uh-nid. I always just spell it out U-N-I-D which would be a UNID. Since I've never heard anyone else say it out loud this has never come up yet.
Note: For those who don't know you put "a" in front of a word that has a consonant sound and "an" in front of a vowel sound. The letter doesn't matter.
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Re: UNID (off topic)

Post by Atarlost » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:05 pm

Those who tell you 'y' is ever a consonant are lying. They do that a lot. The line between vowel and consonant is a blurry one. 'Y' is, according to scholars, a semivowe, but a semivowel is distinguished from a vowel not by phonology but by position in a syllable. Any distinction between this and a dipthong is splitting hairs.
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Re: UNID (off topic)

Post by digdug » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:10 pm

I like to pronounce UNID like university [yoo-nuh-vur-si-tee].
so, coincidentally, I use "a UNID" [yoo-nuh-d] exactly like "a university"
However, I'm not English mother-tongue.

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Re: UNID (off topic)

Post by Atarlost » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:36 am

Well, it should be yoo-ni-vur-si-tee or possibly yoo-nee-vur-si-tee
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Re: UNID (off topic)

Post by Vachtra » Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:13 pm

Y is often a vowel as in try and sky and very.
W can also be vowel as in crwth, an instrument. More commonly spelled creuth or cruth but the first spelling is still accurate. In this word it sounds like it's name, a double u, ok actually only a single u.

As far as university goes it would be a university since it has the y sound in front and it is a consonant y instead of a vowel y sound. Just becuase it starts with a vowel letter doesn't mean that that's the sound it starts with.

On the flip side h is a common dropped sound as in honor where it would be said an honor even though the consonant is in front since it isn't said. Another common h word is herb. A less common but occasional one is history or historic. Often times this is due to local dialect.
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Re: UNID (off topic)

Post by Atarlost » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:02 pm

'W', like 'y', is only a consonant by convention. When not adjacent to another vowel they are vowels. When adjacent to other vowels they form diphthongs.
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Re: UNID (off topic)

Post by Vachtra » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:04 am

When adjacent to other vowels they form diphthongs.
false

Dipthongs are actually double vowels. Y and W not double vowels unless they have the long "i" or "e" sound. An example is "toy".
The word "you" has no dipthongs. The "y" is a consonant hard "y" sound and the "ou" make only one sound.
The word "wine" has no dipthongs either. the "w" is a consonant hard "w" sound and the "i" is a long "i" sound not an "ie" sound.
The word "out" has a dipthong. The "o" sound slides into the "u" sound.
When "y" is a vowel it has either the long "i" or long "e" sound.
When "w" is a vowel it has the short "u" sound.
To tell if it is a consonant or vowel sound think if the sound comes from the back of the throat (vowel) or is altered by lips teeth or tongue (consonant).
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Re: UNID (off topic)

Post by sun1404 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:11 am

Never knew W could be a vowel... I thought words that have W in the place where there should be a vowel (like crwth) was supposed to be in some alien language. :)
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Re: UNID (off topic)

Post by Atarlost » Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:06 am

Vachtra wrote:
When adjacent to other vowels they form diphthongs.
false

Dipthongs are actually double vowels. Y and W not double vowels unless they have the long "i" or "e" sound. An example is "toy".
The word "you" has no dipthongs. The "y" is a consonant hard "y" sound and the "ou" make only one sound.
The word "wine" has no dipthongs either. the "w" is a consonant hard "w" sound and the "i" is a long "i" sound not an "ie" sound.
The word "out" has a dipthong. The "o" sound slides into the "u" sound.
When "y" is a vowel it has either the long "i" or long "e" sound.
When "w" is a vowel it has the short "u" sound.
To tell if it is a consonant or vowel sound think if the sound comes from the back of the throat (vowel) or is altered by lips teeth or tongue (consonant).
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'y' is the front close or near-front near-close vowel. It makes a diphthong with the sound represented by 'ou' in "you".
'w' is the central close or back close rounded vowel. It makes a diphthong with 'i' in "wine".

You are are engaging in the phonetical equivalent of exhorting people to not -- in defiance of common usage, literary precedent, and the fact that in English they're two bloody separate words -- split infinitives.
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Re: UNID (off topic)

Post by Vachtra » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:48 pm

I hope I'm not the only person here who really doesn't agree with this.
Unless you have a really odd accent I can't even imagine what it sounds like when you try to say these words.

Try saying "an wine" and if you believe it doesn't sound funny to you then.... I really want to hear a recording of it.

edit: Ok, found your chart. You are not looking at the english alphabet. You are looking at the international phonetic alphabet. This means that the "w" and "y" are not the actual letters but representation of sound. There are also many more than what is shown. Over 300 different vowel sounds have been recorded and given symbols at various times. To mistake this with english spelling is what happens when we don't take the time to see what it is we're looking at.

edit2: Just fyi. Everything stated by me is only about the english language. I can't speak for the others.
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Re: UNID (off topic)

Post by Atarlost » Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:52 am

Wikipedia has sound samples. I checked them. Those are what 'y' and 'w' represent in English orthography.
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Re: UNID (off topic)

Post by Ttech » Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:43 am

unique id
remove the ique and you have how you pronounce it.

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Re: UNID (off topic)

Post by pixelfck » Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:26 pm

Ttech wrote:unique id
remove the ique and you have how you pronounce it.
This is what I always assumed, but then again, I'm not a native speaker.
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Re: UNID (off topic)

Post by Jay2Jay » Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:37 am

And I thought that diphthongs were a type of woman's underwear not a grammar thing.

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Re: UNID (off topic)

Post by Atarlost » Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:49 am

They're not. This is phonics.
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