Anacreon Beta II Discussion Thread
-
Watch TV, Do Nothing
- Militia Captain
- Posts: 803
- Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:22 am
- Contact:
IMPERIUM attacked University, but then UFW moved against IMPERIUM and annihilated them. Meanwhile, Trask has pushed into the vacant southeast.
-
Watch TV, Do Nothing
- Militia Captain
- Posts: 803
- Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:22 am
- Contact:
Notes:
- A dramatic blitzkreig in the galactic south ended the total annihilation of IMPERIUM. IMPERIUM launched a surprise attack against Seekers of Knowledge. The two combatants seemed evenly matched before the war; in addition to the element of surprise, IMPERIUM had a much better jumpfleet, while Seekers had more strongly fortified capitals and hubs. The war seemed to go well for Imperium at first- I've heard claims that a treaty was even being arranged to Imperium's benefit- until UFW decided to attack the depleted IMPERIUM, routing them entirely and either encouraging an abdication or taking all sector capitals, destryoing them. Imperium's old territory is now partitioned between UFW and Seekers, with Seekers expanding into the nebula and UFW establishing a new cluster in clear space.
- Tens of thousands of Hexacarbide Brotherhood Typhon starcruisers launched a pitched but futile attack against Hand's Ursae Majoris hub. The mysterious attackers, which all bore Mesophon markings, had twice the fleet strength of the defenders but were obliterated because the hub was strongly garrisoned with starfrigates and protected by long-range hypersonic missiles, both of which are very effective against the short-range, missile-equipped Typhon. Apparently this is a bizarre ritual periodically enacted by the Brotherhood to rid themselves of their most temperamental pilots.
- Trask is expanding into the galactic southeast, territory once held by bugzzzzzzz.
- NEWBIE is expanding around UFW's northern capital and also claiming territory in the southeast. NEWBIE, by planet count the largest empire in the game, keeps claiming territory but has relatively unimpressive fleets- NEWBIE has not used foundations to build a high-tech economy.
-
Wayward Device
- Militia Lieutenant
- Posts: 119
- Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 10:42 pm
- Location: Earth
An analysis of the major powers, Cycle 4149
UFW Ministry of Information
Autumn Leaves Archive
As of Cycle 4149 the galaxy is populated by a group of empires with radically different ideologies and goals. As the dust settles on the most recent round of conflicts in the Southern Migration Wars now is a good time to take a look at the various factions competing for galactic dominion.
With the largest jumpfleet and a firm hold of the largest usable portion of the Great Nebula, Hand is indisputably the greatest power in the galaxy. Having survived the cataclysmic end of the Reign of Bugz and avoiding the recent conflict between the Seekers of Knowledge, Imperium Ascendant and the UFW they have nevertheless managed to set up a cluster in the Southern Galactic Plains. With a high tech cluster economy and entrenched defenses Hand won't be going anywhere soon. Whether recent expansion will continue or not remains unknown but one thing is certain - this is not an empire to cross lightly.
With the only jumpfleet to come close to rivaling Hand and a huge, decadent empire that sprawls along the western edge of the Galaxy hoa0004, The Great HOA0004, is the second greatest power. Always busy dying and always being reborn, this ancient empire is still a powerful beast when it chooses to rouse itself. Dominated by an unusual trade-ring arrangement this empire is a mixture of economic stagnation and powerful industry. Although NEWBIE has nibbled around it's edged like a timid jackal and Dath is growing at its heart like a tumor, the sun has yet to set on hoa004.
The third greatest power is the Union of Free Worlds. Being the largest winner of the recent Southern Migration Wars, the UFW used it's two partial clusters in the north west to found a full seven clusters in the Southern Galactic Plain. If the UFW can fulfill the economic promise of it's new gains it stands to become a powerful empire for many cycles to come, although its rapid expansion runs the risk of drawing the ire of other empires.
NEWBIE is a strange empire. Though unimaginably vast its industry is crude and it's fleet laughably small, being outgunned even by the pacifist non-expansionary empires. Using it's meager forces it has managed to capture vast swathes of independent worlds throughout the galaxy. However, unless this empire has a secret plan for an industrial revolution it is only a matter of time until a more advanced empire decides to make some easy territorial gains.
Dath is the last of the expansionist empires. Growing like a tumor at hoa004's heart, this empire uses an unusually tight-knit trade mesh arrangement. With rapid expansion and an impressive fleet for its size Dath could be a real contender on the galactic stage if they can continue to grow without rousing hoa0004's wrath.
Finally, there are three major pacifist non-expansionary empires. At the northern edge of the Southern Galactic Plain are the Seekers of Knowledge. The Seekers, though sworn to peace and non-expansion, were able to profit form the recent invasion by the now defunct Imperium Ascendant when the UFW took advantage and pressed it's claims against the Imperium. With the dust settled the Seekers have solidified their hold on their territory and expanded a little in the Great Nebula. With a new focus on starships and a non-aggression pact with the UFW this empire seems set to endure.
The ancient and mysterious Hexacarbide Brootherhood seems content to sit in their single heavily defended cluster in the North West, only occasionally sending out a lone fleet to attack a token world and remind the galaxy they exist. For now the other empires seem to wish to leave the Brothers to hoard their Hexacarbide in peace.
Last is the Cornet Empire. Little is known about this enigmatic northern people. They have a single cluster, heavily defended worlds and a large jumpfleet they never use. Whether the Cornet is merely the symbol of this enigmatic people or if they are ruled by a wind instrument given super human intelligence by unknown technology remains a mystery.
UFW Ministry of Information
Autumn Leaves Archive
As of Cycle 4149 the galaxy is populated by a group of empires with radically different ideologies and goals. As the dust settles on the most recent round of conflicts in the Southern Migration Wars now is a good time to take a look at the various factions competing for galactic dominion.
With the largest jumpfleet and a firm hold of the largest usable portion of the Great Nebula, Hand is indisputably the greatest power in the galaxy. Having survived the cataclysmic end of the Reign of Bugz and avoiding the recent conflict between the Seekers of Knowledge, Imperium Ascendant and the UFW they have nevertheless managed to set up a cluster in the Southern Galactic Plains. With a high tech cluster economy and entrenched defenses Hand won't be going anywhere soon. Whether recent expansion will continue or not remains unknown but one thing is certain - this is not an empire to cross lightly.
With the only jumpfleet to come close to rivaling Hand and a huge, decadent empire that sprawls along the western edge of the Galaxy hoa0004, The Great HOA0004, is the second greatest power. Always busy dying and always being reborn, this ancient empire is still a powerful beast when it chooses to rouse itself. Dominated by an unusual trade-ring arrangement this empire is a mixture of economic stagnation and powerful industry. Although NEWBIE has nibbled around it's edged like a timid jackal and Dath is growing at its heart like a tumor, the sun has yet to set on hoa004.
The third greatest power is the Union of Free Worlds. Being the largest winner of the recent Southern Migration Wars, the UFW used it's two partial clusters in the north west to found a full seven clusters in the Southern Galactic Plain. If the UFW can fulfill the economic promise of it's new gains it stands to become a powerful empire for many cycles to come, although its rapid expansion runs the risk of drawing the ire of other empires.
NEWBIE is a strange empire. Though unimaginably vast its industry is crude and it's fleet laughably small, being outgunned even by the pacifist non-expansionary empires. Using it's meager forces it has managed to capture vast swathes of independent worlds throughout the galaxy. However, unless this empire has a secret plan for an industrial revolution it is only a matter of time until a more advanced empire decides to make some easy territorial gains.
Dath is the last of the expansionist empires. Growing like a tumor at hoa004's heart, this empire uses an unusually tight-knit trade mesh arrangement. With rapid expansion and an impressive fleet for its size Dath could be a real contender on the galactic stage if they can continue to grow without rousing hoa0004's wrath.
Finally, there are three major pacifist non-expansionary empires. At the northern edge of the Southern Galactic Plain are the Seekers of Knowledge. The Seekers, though sworn to peace and non-expansion, were able to profit form the recent invasion by the now defunct Imperium Ascendant when the UFW took advantage and pressed it's claims against the Imperium. With the dust settled the Seekers have solidified their hold on their territory and expanded a little in the Great Nebula. With a new focus on starships and a non-aggression pact with the UFW this empire seems set to endure.
The ancient and mysterious Hexacarbide Brootherhood seems content to sit in their single heavily defended cluster in the North West, only occasionally sending out a lone fleet to attack a token world and remind the galaxy they exist. For now the other empires seem to wish to leave the Brothers to hoard their Hexacarbide in peace.
Last is the Cornet Empire. Little is known about this enigmatic northern people. They have a single cluster, heavily defended worlds and a large jumpfleet they never use. Whether the Cornet is merely the symbol of this enigmatic people or if they are ruled by a wind instrument given super human intelligence by unknown technology remains a mystery.
-
Watch TV, Do Nothing
- Militia Captain
- Posts: 803
- Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:22 am
- Contact:
Notes:
- They say that when you first go to prison, one way to get respect is to find the biggest guy around and knock him out. The ostensibly peace-minded new PAX empire has done so in grand style by taking out the biggest (if not strongest) empire in the game, NEWBIE. Newbie abdicated but has apparently started a new empire.
- New Republic, a young empire in the galactic south, has vanished from the map. Its fate is unknown.
- UFW's Gorgos fleet has almost doubled in 7 days and is now the largest in the galaxy. UFW looks poised to duplicate the territory and fleet composition of the old Autocracy of Order in almost every respect.
- With the abdication of NEWBIE, large swathes of territory in the Northeast are vacant. Many of these worlds have intact habitat structures, or at least they will for the next cycles or two until they regress. The northeast is not superb territory since it also contains the bugged remains of Ontarion; new players spawning there might be confused. Ontarion was a large empire that was destroyed about a month ago, due to a rare bug associated to how Ontarion was destroyed, Ontarion's worlds look like they are part of an empire but can't be interacted with in any way and will cause the game client to hang slightly when you click on them. They can be safely ignored, but they do take up a hundreds of worlds that could be otherwise useful.
-
Xephyr
- Militia Captain
- Posts: 857
- Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:52 am
- Location: Orion Arm, Milky Way
- Contact:
Update: The PAX empire has been destroyed.
Project Renegade (Beta) : "The Poor Man's Corporate Command!"
Real programmers count from 0. And sometimes I do, too.
Real programmers count from 0. And sometimes I do, too.
-
Watch TV, Do Nothing
- Militia Captain
- Posts: 803
- Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:22 am
- Contact:
Trask just kicked Pax's butt! Hoa0004 had a large jumpfleet nearby but I don't know if they were involved in the fighting.
Since this war happened so soon after an update, I can note a few statistics about it that normally would be hard to measure.
Trask captured or incited defections on 26 planets in the war and had a net loss of only 50000 Eldritches and about 250,000 Helions. Trask captured at least 20,000 Adamants.
Since this war happened so soon after an update, I can note a few statistics about it that normally would be hard to measure.
Trask captured or incited defections on 26 planets in the war and had a net loss of only 50000 Eldritches and about 250,000 Helions. Trask captured at least 20,000 Adamants.
-
AdmiralZo
- Militia Lieutenant
- Posts: 228
- Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:32 am
- Location: Scouring Dantalion System for CSC Antarctica...
Nooooooo....I have failed. I had about 1 million Eldritch there protecting Pax from NEWBIE's attacks, but I didn't see it coming from Trask...Hoa0004 had a large jumpfleet nearby but I don't know if they were involved in the fighting.
-
Watch TV, Do Nothing
- Militia Captain
- Posts: 803
- Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:22 am
- Contact:
I've suggested that fleets be given orders to perform on arrival ( http://ministry.kronosaur.com/record.hexm?id=2195 ) and that citadels be given standing orders. Do people think standing orders for stationary fleets would be useful, e.g. to allow them to attack fleets invading another player's world (assuming that it didn't impose a social order penalty)?
-
Xephyr
- Militia Captain
- Posts: 857
- Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:52 am
- Location: Orion Arm, Milky Way
- Contact:
Yeah, that would be a major improvement. Especially for Citadels (although I could see someone zerg rushing them with explorers to deplete their missile stocks).Watch TV, Do Nothing wrote:Do people think standing orders for stationary fleets would be useful, e.g. to allow them to attack fleets invading another player's world (assuming that it didn't impose a social order penalty)?
Project Renegade (Beta) : "The Poor Man's Corporate Command!"
Real programmers count from 0. And sometimes I do, too.
Real programmers count from 0. And sometimes I do, too.
-
Watch TV, Do Nothing
- Militia Captain
- Posts: 803
- Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:22 am
- Contact:
I think jumpmissiles do pretty well against explorers, I believe they destroy 20-25 per individual missile fired against both Vanguards and Helions even though Helions have twice as much armor. I am not sure if wing size, fleet size, presence of other ships, or orbit/in-transit status have any effect on damage output. I'm not sure whether the number of units of any given type that will be destroyed by a successful individual Partisan hit is hardcoded or whether it is a function of armor, wing size or shape, labor cost, etc.
Ideally Partisan damage output would have enough of a relationship to supply-chain-inclusive labor costs that there would be little or no labor advantage to swamping citadels with cheap units because the total labor cost of the destroyed units would be the same:
E.g. a Vanguard has has a minSCIL cost of 113 and a Sirius has a minSCIL cost of 579, so a jumpmissile should destroy 5.12x as many Vanguards as Siriuses, which I think is about what they do right now.
It could also be pegged to power, which would make zerging irrational: a Sirius has 22x the power of a Vanguard but costs 5.12x as much, using Vanguards as cannon fodder against Jumpmissiles would actually be ~4.3x as costly as using Siriuses.
(My minSCIL chart doesn't take consumer goods consumption at different TLs into account, so it's not perfect.)
Partisans claim to do 1600 damage and have a range of I think 100 megameters from the moment they appear in the combat visualizer at a range of like 50 megameters from the planet surface. I think in some cases they can fail to hit their targets at all if they materialize far enough away from the target, e.g. on the opposite side of the planet. (not sure.) They can definitely be intercepted in orbit whereas I think they get guaranteed hits against units in transit, which is why an option to fire against moving fleets is desired.
I'm not sure how damage smears between units. Anyone know?
E.g. the Behemoth has 2400 armor. Are Behemoth fleets:
a) immune to Partisans entirely because no single missile strike can destroy a Behemoth
b) destroyed by Partisans at a 2 missile : 1 Behemoth ratio
c) destroyed by Partisans at a 3 missile: 2 Behemoth ratio because 3 missiles do 4800 damage?
Citadels seem to try to only fire enough missiles to destroy ~1/3 of ships in a fleet for any single fire missiles command.
Things get tricky when you throw intercepting units in the mix. I think right now citadels will autofire during invasions of allied planets in range but not during non-invasion fleet actions or invasions of the citadel, but I'm not sure (I might just have been invading very alert players). What we don't want are situations where autofiring citadels are exhausting their batteries against completely protected fleets, e.g. Eldritches or Stingers only; or are wasting way too many missiles against fleets where they can get a few legit hits (e.g. a small number of Warphants and a ton of Gorgos) but waste a ton missiles against protected wings (e.g. the citadel might choose to fire a bunch of missiles to destroy orbiting Gorgos wings during an invasion because it thinks a ton are needed since Gorgos have high armor, but the missiles will never even reach the Gorgos because the Gorgos can fully intercept them and the citadel doesn't take that into account).
If transports orbit higher and citadels only aim at transports and unprotected wings during autofire-on-invasion, that would be ideal. I'm not sure how that maps onto what we have right now though.
Ideally Partisan damage output would have enough of a relationship to supply-chain-inclusive labor costs that there would be little or no labor advantage to swamping citadels with cheap units because the total labor cost of the destroyed units would be the same:
E.g. a Vanguard has has a minSCIL cost of 113 and a Sirius has a minSCIL cost of 579, so a jumpmissile should destroy 5.12x as many Vanguards as Siriuses, which I think is about what they do right now.
It could also be pegged to power, which would make zerging irrational: a Sirius has 22x the power of a Vanguard but costs 5.12x as much, using Vanguards as cannon fodder against Jumpmissiles would actually be ~4.3x as costly as using Siriuses.
(My minSCIL chart doesn't take consumer goods consumption at different TLs into account, so it's not perfect.)
Partisans claim to do 1600 damage and have a range of I think 100 megameters from the moment they appear in the combat visualizer at a range of like 50 megameters from the planet surface. I think in some cases they can fail to hit their targets at all if they materialize far enough away from the target, e.g. on the opposite side of the planet. (not sure.) They can definitely be intercepted in orbit whereas I think they get guaranteed hits against units in transit, which is why an option to fire against moving fleets is desired.
I'm not sure how damage smears between units. Anyone know?
E.g. the Behemoth has 2400 armor. Are Behemoth fleets:
a) immune to Partisans entirely because no single missile strike can destroy a Behemoth
b) destroyed by Partisans at a 2 missile : 1 Behemoth ratio
c) destroyed by Partisans at a 3 missile: 2 Behemoth ratio because 3 missiles do 4800 damage?
Citadels seem to try to only fire enough missiles to destroy ~1/3 of ships in a fleet for any single fire missiles command.
Things get tricky when you throw intercepting units in the mix. I think right now citadels will autofire during invasions of allied planets in range but not during non-invasion fleet actions or invasions of the citadel, but I'm not sure (I might just have been invading very alert players). What we don't want are situations where autofiring citadels are exhausting their batteries against completely protected fleets, e.g. Eldritches or Stingers only; or are wasting way too many missiles against fleets where they can get a few legit hits (e.g. a small number of Warphants and a ton of Gorgos) but waste a ton missiles against protected wings (e.g. the citadel might choose to fire a bunch of missiles to destroy orbiting Gorgos wings during an invasion because it thinks a ton are needed since Gorgos have high armor, but the missiles will never even reach the Gorgos because the Gorgos can fully intercept them and the citadel doesn't take that into account).
If transports orbit higher and citadels only aim at transports and unprotected wings during autofire-on-invasion, that would be ideal. I'm not sure how that maps onto what we have right now though.
-
Wayward Device
- Militia Lieutenant
- Posts: 119
- Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 10:42 pm
- Location: Earth
There are a few promising little empires starting out right now. I worry for Great Slothia though. The Wolf Raiders right next to them are already making Eldritchs and the sloths haven't even designated the worlds they've taken. The APD is looking promising in the little hidden away nebula pocket next to Hand (that I was eyeing before they set up shop, grrr). It looks like they are going T&E but haven't started exporting to Mesophon directly yet. Still, they have a nice little cluster going and I have the sneaking suspicion that someone is about to try out the Pirate Doctrine discussed in the other thread. The One and Tanatopia also seem to have made some decent progress but it's to early to tell if they will burn out or not.
Watch TV, that was some really interesting info about jumpmissiles. Some of it's crazy to me. I've played this game for nearly 2 years now, on and off, and I didn't know that you could actually see them on the combat screen. I definitely didn't know that they autofired on invaders, I might actually use them some time.
Still from my basic calculations using citadels is on macro level (in terms of the output of a cluster) almost as bad as spending 15% on planetary defenses on every world. Most clusters are about 50 worlds (especially on the current map that has a more even distribution than the last one). With the range of jumpmissiles you could entirely cover a cluster with four citadels but really you realistically looking are looking at 5 if you account for awkward patches of empty space and the need to cover the cap/archive/hub. That's 10% of the clusters total industrial output for a meh defense.
I do like jumpmissiles though. There are a couple of simple improvements that could make them extremely viable apart from all the targeting stuff. First, drastically lower the attrition rate. Way below Gorgos levels. I think right now the most one world can sustain is about 300-500k, and that after about 10 cycles of buildup at TL10 100% efficiency. Not really enough to do more than annoy the kind of fleets that are used. Second, let them be moved by transports. It would be great if they could be mass produced and positioned where needed. People will say that huge numbers of jumpmissiles would be bad in the same way that remnant Gorgos fleets are but I say who doesn't want to see the balance of power in a giant space cold war disturbed when a breakaway rebel nation inherits huge stockpiles of teleporting ICBMs?
Plus we would have a legitimate reason to use the term gigadeaths.
Watch TV, that was some really interesting info about jumpmissiles. Some of it's crazy to me. I've played this game for nearly 2 years now, on and off, and I didn't know that you could actually see them on the combat screen. I definitely didn't know that they autofired on invaders, I might actually use them some time.
Still from my basic calculations using citadels is on macro level (in terms of the output of a cluster) almost as bad as spending 15% on planetary defenses on every world. Most clusters are about 50 worlds (especially on the current map that has a more even distribution than the last one). With the range of jumpmissiles you could entirely cover a cluster with four citadels but really you realistically looking are looking at 5 if you account for awkward patches of empty space and the need to cover the cap/archive/hub. That's 10% of the clusters total industrial output for a meh defense.
I do like jumpmissiles though. There are a couple of simple improvements that could make them extremely viable apart from all the targeting stuff. First, drastically lower the attrition rate. Way below Gorgos levels. I think right now the most one world can sustain is about 300-500k, and that after about 10 cycles of buildup at TL10 100% efficiency. Not really enough to do more than annoy the kind of fleets that are used. Second, let them be moved by transports. It would be great if they could be mass produced and positioned where needed. People will say that huge numbers of jumpmissiles would be bad in the same way that remnant Gorgos fleets are but I say who doesn't want to see the balance of power in a giant space cold war disturbed when a breakaway rebel nation inherits huge stockpiles of teleporting ICBMs?
Plus we would have a legitimate reason to use the term gigadeaths.
-
Watch TV, Do Nothing
- Militia Captain
- Posts: 803
- Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:22 am
- Contact:
It seems like there are a bunch of low-TL Mesophon planets within in the central part of the map but I don't remember them being there previously. They are not designated or connected by trade routes the way that normal Mesophon worlds are. Does anyone know when those joined Mesophon, or have they been there all along and I just didn't notice?
-
Wayward Device
- Militia Lieutenant
- Posts: 119
- Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 10:42 pm
- Location: Earth
This is extremely weird. I have a map screenshot from cycle 4024 of the current map that clearly shows the original Mesophon worlds (they are all the ones without bubbles as theirs was the only cap I hadn't found at the time). They have clearly expanded.
Take a look:
http://i.imgur.com/98lmbtX.jpg
Maybe George is having a little fun with Mesophon in the background? Has anyone tried sending them empire messages?
Take a look:
http://i.imgur.com/98lmbtX.jpg
Maybe George is having a little fun with Mesophon in the background? Has anyone tried sending them empire messages?
-
Watch TV, Do Nothing
- Militia Captain
- Posts: 803
- Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:22 am
- Contact:
People complained during Beta I that almost all of the Mesophon planets got taken over. If this isn't some data corruption bug, with planets getting assigned the wrong sovereign, it's conceivable that some function was added for Beta II to automatically hand random independent planets over to Mesophon when hubs get taken over in order to keep Mesophon in the game, and that this function just doesn't bother to check if the new planets are >TL 5 and doesn't assign them hub designation.
The "new" Mesophon planets won't actually buy or sell anything.
These planets don't seem to have been recently conquered by invasion, since their efficiencies are comparable to normal Mesophon worlds. Quite a few of them have ruins, so former player planets have apparently been added.
The "new" Mesophon planets won't actually buy or sell anything.
These planets don't seem to have been recently conquered by invasion, since their efficiencies are comparable to normal Mesophon worlds. Quite a few of them have ruins, so former player planets have apparently been added.