Business Model Discussion

[Atarlost]

Pirates are not the TSA. If you cannot distinguish between a government organ and lawless Internet freeloaders you really have no business trying to dictate business models.

And if you cannot distinguish between an analogy and real life, then you don't belong here either.

You rejected the closer analogy between pirates and burglars in order to give legitimacy to criminals by comparing them to the TSA.

[Jay2Jay]

The analogy was between the actions of opening a suitcase without permission and cracking a game without permission, they'll do it anyway.

[FourFire]

We lock our doors to lower the probability of an opportunist making off with our possesions and valuables:
The higher the barrier for entry the fewer people exist in the world who are both willing and capable of breaking in and as a subset the people in your area are even fewer.

With electronic "IP" data protection the case is somewhat different:
"Files" are more of a concept than a concrete object; in the end all data are simple bits.
The security only has to be broken once, and then the unsecured data is copied and spread by pirates. (this is why the house analogy is not quite satisfactory)

In an ideal world comapnies and creators of content will be fully paid AS they Create the content instead of afterwards, and then the content can be distributed freely since the development costs have already been covered, unfortunatley we don't live in that world and independent creators have to make up their profits after the fact.

[sun1404]

I find both the house analogy and the... bag lock analogy equally viable. When the lock is broken, you lost everything. But anyway, I don't think this is a matter actually worth arguing about.

[Jay2Jay]

I concur, lets move on.

[the_Butler]

I should point out that the boss is right, quality product will get payed for. Look at GoG, none of their games have DRM, but by comparison to the originals, how many GoG games can you find for illegal download? A few years ago when GoG was just getting started with their business plan people were whining (NOT saying it's happening here) that leaving the games unlocked would just make them easier to download, but after extensive searching on the various torrent sites I could never find a GoG game for illegal download.

People will pay for quality- Me personally, I pay for quality, I wish I'd of illegally downloaded spore before I bought it so I'd of known how bad it sucked- but that's neither here nor there.

Still, you can't dismiss that payed games don't have thriving modding communities despite the costs of the vanilla game and then all the DLCs, you can't beat the Nexus Mods numbers, their membership is in the millions.

[Jay2Jay]

Freelancer, Deadspace, Privateer, X3, etc all torrented from ThePirateBay

[the_Butler]

Freelancer, Deadspace, Privateer, X3, etc all torrented from ThePirateBay

Originals, or the GoG version- At the time when I checked there were no GoG games for illegal download, lots of the originals though. Like Fallout 1 and 2, readily available on TPB, but NOT the GoG versions. There will always be some pirates, that will never be stopped, but people will pay for the good stuff more often then not.

[Jay2Jay]

GoG, it expressively said so on the descriptions

[TVR]

Pirates are not the TSA. If you cannot distinguish between a government organ and lawless Internet freeloaders you really have no business trying to dictate business models.

...

You rejected the closer analogy between pirates and burglars in order to give legitimacy to criminals by comparing them to the TSA.

"Lawless" and "criminals" are very interesting ways to describe the majority of the internet users, who coincidentally, also form the majority of Transcendence community members. At this rate, a massive clampdown on the community is no longer just likely - it's inevitable.

Atarlost, do you geniunely believe that copyright infringement is a crime, or that those who practice file-sharing are "criminals" or "lawless"?

The analogy was between the actions of opening a suitcase without permission and cracking a game without permission, they'll do it anyway.

* Indeed, additionally, it was to explain that the logical equivalent of locking a door is using DRM.

* Unlike locking a door, DRM is orders of magnitude less effective, which explains why you chose not to use DRM. (It hassles the customer more than the copier).

* However, sellers lock their mechandise up for a good reason, it is to prevent non-buyers from simply taking it.

* Because DRM is not effective, you have no way to "lock up" your software, therefore you should not treat selling software like selling physical mechandise.

* If you can't secure the same way, you should not sell it the same way!

In an ideal world comapnies and creators of content will be fully paid AS they Create the content instead of afterwards, and then the content can be distributed freely since the development costs have already been covered, unfortunatley we don't live in that world and independent creators have to make up their profits after the fact.

To be honest, being funded upfront by pledges is much more sensible than hoping at least 10% of the players choose to pay for it after it hits TPB.

Why not go the democratic way and release everything for free, then simply ask for donations? People who appreciate it and have money will donate, and the others (like me) will appreciate it and do our best in the community. Its a win-win scenario and I think you would get more money this way.

Transcendence actually has a donate button:


Use of it must be too rare to justify that model.

Still, you can't dismiss that payed games don't have thriving modding communities despite the costs of the vanilla game and then all the DLCs, you can't beat the Nexus Mods numbers, their membership is in the millions.

Most commercial games do indeed have vibrant mod communities, but the mod developments have two crucial distinctions:

1) They must be non-commercial.
2) They almost never include their source code.

Also worth mentioning:

3) Less modable than Transcendence.

As of right now, I've spent around 20 hours typing up reponses, but that's nothing in comparison to the few years and the ~100,000 USD it seems you've planned on investing. Perhaps some more consideration could prove worthwhile?

[Jay2Jay]

Indeed

He agreed with me I WAS RIGHT!.

[Bruno]

I'd buy Transcendence normal way.
(Try, fall in love, buy, download, massive enjoy)

Regular age 30+ guy with good (non-computer-business) income who happens to love quality games. Transcendence has that one-in-hundred special feeling that makes me want to buy it to support and feel good about it. Most games are so-so (crap).

Free core game is must so guys like me (yay) can find and try it. I wouldn't even know about this pledge business, but I know how to buy a great game.

[Atarlost]

Pirates are not the TSA. If you cannot distinguish between a government organ and lawless Internet freeloaders you really have no business trying to dictate business models.

...

You rejected the closer analogy between pirates and burglars in order to give legitimacy to criminals by comparing them to the TSA.

"Lawless" and "criminals" are very interesting ways to describe the majority of the internet users, who coincidentally, also form the majority of Transcendence community members. At this rate, a massive clampdown on the community is no longer just likely - it's inevitable.

Atarlost, do you geniunely believe that copyright infringement is a crime, or that those who practice file-sharing are "criminals" or "lawless"?

Copyright infringement is absolutely a crime and I find your use of scare quotes demonstrates precisely the sort of flagrant disregard for the law that is described by the term lawless. When you steal creative works you are stealing someone's livelihood as surely as when you steal cars.

* If you can't secure the same way, you should not sell it the same way!

False. Software does sell even when cracked versions are available because honest people still exist.

[Ttech]

Before this topic gets out of hand, lets point out that DRM free games have actually become quite popular - humbebundle.com can attest to this.

[Atarlost]

Before this topic gets out of hand, lets point out that DRM free games have actually become quite popular - humbebundle.com can attest to this.

DRM is almost unconnected with the notion of charging money for content and I am not advocating it.

Every day billions of people living near stores with imperfect security refrain from shoplifting. Most of them do so not because of fear, but because the people working at the store are not faceless corporations. The best anti-theft mechanism is probably to put a thumbnail photo of George next to his name in the title credits and maybe have him narrate the expansion title cards.