Balance issues in RC1 [spoily]

[Fossaman]

On the subject of balance: The new version seems to have an alarming propensity for epic wreck fields. In a single system, I encountered a dual Ventari/Huari wreck field near a gate guarded by Adventurers Outfitters, a Ventari wreck field near their base, again next to an Adventurers Outfitters, and a Ferian/Huari wreck field...again next to an Adventurer's Outfitters (mostly Ferian Warriors). I came out of that system with 600,000 credits and a hold stuffed full of pteracnium fuel rods.

I'm thinking that Adventurer's Outfitters might be a tad overpowered? Granted, the Ferians managed to take out the one near their colony. And then glazed the Corp Cruiser on the way in.

[Aury]

Actually it's always been like this... Ventari seem to be the most succeptable to this problem.

[Atarlost]

The removal of safe zones around stations mean they're more likely than previously to get killed in the crossfire even if not themselves targeted.

[Aury]

The removal of safe zones around stations mean they're more likely than previously to get killed in the crossfire even if not themselves targeted.

Hmmm.... maybe allow stations to get rebuilt after some time? it was just too expoitable to camp around a station and let its gaurd ships deal with enemies attacking you.

[F50]

Those ships aren't staying near the colony, they're random walking al over the system.

And even the patroling ships represent a danger zone 240 light seconds across. That's three quarters the distance from the sun to earth and Transcendance star systems are drastically undersized to keep travel times tolerable.

Yes, but its not effective until it gets within 60-80 ls. You get so much warning past that, dodging is trivial (I suspect even with the freighter). Most importantly, the ship is not chasing you. If you wait a little while, it will leave.

Even so:

Ventari aren't too difficult to deal with, I just destroyed a ventari who ambushed me in a nebula, without bothering to retreat retreat, using ~75 white strelkas (I had far too many of them) and a double +fast (weapon optimizer + autoloader) mark III howitzer. My (+50%) S500 took ~100 damage. He got a bunch of hits on me before I was able to properly start shooting up his side, which wouldn't happen if you ambushed one from a planet. Mark IIIs should be readily available by that time, weapon optimizer roms too. I'm not sure about the autoloaders, but I'm guessing you can order them as well.

I looted an omni TeV off its wreak, an easy solution to all the ventari problems that I may have been having by that time. Other weapons available in shops included more omni TeVs and a mark V. I also had plenty of green strelkas in my cargo hold and about a hundred red ones as well.

The removal of safe zones around stations mean they're more likely than previously to get killed in the crossfire even if not themselves targeted.

How about have ships avoid enemy stations as long as they are not within 100ls of their own base? That might solve the Adventure Outfitters problem too.

On the subject of balance: The new version seems to have an alarming propensity for epic wreck fields.

More salvager ships?

[Song]

The no-fire zone around stations definately needs tweaking. I yesterday abused it by shooting Ferian miners until I had 3 or 4 Warriors coming after me, then sat between the arms of a Black Market Shipyard.

Select autopilot, and a few minutes later, the base is at 91%.......invoke defend, watch it blow, then run for the hills.....blasting away at the miners....


A few minutes later, I'm MUCH richer, and have some sweet equipment out of it as well.

That was only because it was REALLY close to the Ferian base....so I could shoot miners without getting Plasma'd.....but it is a definite way to abuse the system.

[Aury]

The no-fire zone around stations definately needs tweaking. I yesterday abused it by shooting Ferian miners until I had 3 or 4 Warriors coming after me, then sat between the arms of a Black Market Shipyard.

Select autopilot, and a few minutes later, the base is at 91%.......invoke defend, watch it blow, then run for the hills.....blasting away at the miners....


A few minutes later, I'm MUCH richer, and have some sweet equipment out of it as well.

That was only because it was REALLY close to the Ferian base....so I could shoot miners without getting Plasma'd.....but it is a definite way to abuse the system.

This still happens naturally... I've had Hauri kill BM shipyards naturally in .98 and .99

[Song]

The no-fire zone around stations definately needs tweaking. I yesterday abused it by shooting Ferian miners until I had 3 or 4 Warriors coming after me, then sat between the arms of a Black Market Shipyard.

Select autopilot, and a few minutes later, the base is at 91%.......invoke defend, watch it blow, then run for the hills.....blasting away at the miners....


A few minutes later, I'm MUCH richer, and have some sweet equipment out of it as well.

That was only because it was REALLY close to the Ferian base....so I could shoot miners without getting Plasma'd.....but it is a definite way to abuse the system.

This still happens naturally... I've had Hauri kill BM shipyards naturally in .98 and .99

Yes, but The Ferians are trying to kill YOU, not the station. Whereas the Hauri will attack virtually any firendly thing. I once lost the Manufacturing Station with Dvalin in it in 0.99c...

But the Ferians basically let you nuke any station that doesn't have either fast regen, heavy escorts, and/or a decent weapon. Anbd without getting black-listed, either.

Or you can choose a stronger station, and watch it utterly pwn the warriors, then loot the light ithalium armor and sell it at great profit...



The Friendly-fire zone currently lets you sit VERY close to a station, pick off miners....and the warriors will try to attack you, but will effectively hit the station, not you.

[Fossaman]

I've seen Ferian Warriors kill their own station, actually. Rather a laugh. So yeah, that does need tweaking.

[Prophet]

I have noticed that enemies will shoot if you are very close to a station where they would stop and just circle if you were within 5-10 ls in .99

I think the best (although not the easiest) solution is to not allow hostile stations to be spawned within 100 ls or more of eachother.
-Why would Taikon build a station right next to a Huari base? How did all those construction ships get in there and spend months if not years constructing the station in the first place?

Perhaps the stations could charge the player a fine if the exploit is used, then a complete ban? A simple event could check if the player is within 10ls of the station while it is being damaged and decide they don't want you around any more. Then if the ban still doesn't work they could send their guards after you.

[F50]

Another note on the ferrians (with much better equipment).

I found myself trying to farm ferian warriors, actually. It was going pretty well, too. There did seem to be a cap on the number of units the hive would produce, and eventually there was nothing left to go after. But making the warriors a source of pteracnium and giving them that oh-so-lucrative plasma cannon (if you can get it undamaged) really makes them a tempting target.

Ferrian warships have a level IX weapon (the plasma cannon). This is a problem since a regular wolfen with an omni-anything can take out potentially limitless quantities of them. Having a level IX weapon so early (as early as you can get a SN500) is rather game-breaking. Or you could just sell it and pick up a level IX shield instead. The ithalium armor has similar problems.

Furthermore, making Ferrian warships less of a $$$ target is easy.

1. Ferrian warships can shoot their weapons about half as fast as the weapon actually shoots. Giving Ferrian warships a better fireadj and lowering the plasma-cannon's rate of fire could make it a level VIII weapon without changing the difficulty of Ferrian warships.

2. If the ferrian's armor was changed to a lesser type, and the Ferrian warship got shields, its worth would be less, but potentially more resilient to the long-range weakness.

From facing ferrians as a higher-level character (Nephren level IX + (ferrian) plasma cannon + omni TeV [+ mark III +fast]) I noticed that farming ferrians without dealing with the warriors was both difficult and dangerous. However, dealing with ferrian warriors is simple with either the plasma cannon or omni TeV (and not too hard with a +fast mark III). Dealing with three warriors at once is very difficult without an omni, drive upgrade, or friendly station due to the combined fire rate of the plasma cannons and the ferrians speed nearly (but not quite) matching my own.

Right now I am beginning to think that its more important that ferrian warriors have lower-value equipment than be extremely difficult, since they can do well defending the hive if they work in groups.