Wild Mass Guessing

General discussion about anything related to Transcendence.
Cirevam
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Who was it that said that magic is just technology that we don't understand? Domina's powers don't have to simulate magic if they're beyond human understanding... hey, there's food for thought. Her powers are beyond human understanding, but are they beyond that of the Iocrym or other ancient alien races?
shanejfilomena
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Yes and " not exactly " : Domina and Oracus are from the same time periods, the technology the Iocrym have is understood by the Domina forces ( Sisters ) because they have had the teachings / Communing to assist them in finding and studying ( since they are not actually engaged in war activities that we know of in the current systems peace gives them plenty of time to think )

In the Archives you find that the Sisters have had access to Iocrym technology exploits.
therefore : Domina knows far more secrets then we suspected at first..... the stories of Domina and Oracus could fill a book by themselves : I am sure the writers of Old Earth could spell out Volumes of postulations and conjecture.....


However, the fact remains: the Iocrym are no strangers to Domina and Oracus...... the question is : are they friendly ?
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Amariithynar
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I think, if anything, the Iocrym will end up like the Quarian- Generally not bad, but they have Han'Gerrel leading them, so you just want to kick their military butt. >_>
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Amariithynar wrote:I think, if anything, the Iocrym will end up like the Quarian- Generally not bad, but they have Han'Gerrel leading them, so you just want to kick their military butt. >_>
Is there any in-game evidence that the Iocrym are actually a "race"? I don't think we ever see any evidence that there are living Iocrym within the QZ, and we only have their word that they are a race of aliens. There's strong evidence that their sentinels and bases are completely automated.

I'm going to get metaphysical here for a minute, but bear with me.

We make a mental distinction between Volkov and an auton. Volkov attacks our enemies because he has subsumed his will to our own, but he still has his own goals and desires. Volkov has chosen to follow us, but that's irrelevant; even we were forcing him to follow us at gunpoint, he would still possess a will of his own, and would not be an extension of us. If he were told to fire knowing that he would be killed if he did not, when he fired it would nonetheless be because he chose to do so, not because we did.

The auton attacks because it has no will of its own; rather, it is a tool, a weapon; when it fires on our enemies, it is us that is doing the firing, not the auton. The auton is a tool but it is not the totality of us; if the auton is destroyed, we endure. If we are destroyed, no aspect of us is preserved in the auton, even if it continues to follow the last order that we gave it; the will that brought that order into being has ceased to exist.

I believe that Kate Morgental says that the Iocrym were "bred" for a specific purpose. We don't think of autons as a "race" because they have no intrinsic will or goal; rather, they are a direct projection of their controller's will. Couldn't the Iocrym be a projection or expression of some external entity into the QZ rather than an entity in and of themselves? From this viewpoint, Iocrym's actions in the QZ could be roughly analogous to an AutoSentinel that has been told C->A->A.
Amariithynar
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Most certainly they could, as a race, be more analogous to the Geth- I was saying it from the perspective of the interaction involved, in that they might not be so bad as a whole, yet the driving force behind why they're blocking the exit to the QZ (Domina, no?) could be a right jerk, and so while you may come to like the Iocrym, there's still that shadow of a jerk who they obey hovering over them.
Cirevam
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If humans are enough of a threat to the universe with their immense energy consumption and the quarantine is effective, then an alien race so advanced might not think that it's worth the trouble to send one of their own into human space. Just send the equivalent of autons like Watch TV is saying and let them take care of it. Also, we know of at least one Iocrym AI. The building is identical to the other Iocrym stations in Heretic, so one could say that those stations all contain AI that are controlling the Iocrym ships. So it could be that the Iocrym are just guard bots because humans aren't enough of a threat to require direct ancient alien intervention, but they're still dangerous and need to be fenced in.
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Amariithynar wrote:Most certainly they could, as a race, be more analogous to the Geth- I was saying it from the perspective of the interaction involved, in that they might not be so bad as a whole, yet the driving force behind why they're blocking the exit to the QZ (Domina, no?) could be a right jerk, and so while you may come to like the Iocrym, there's still that shadow of a jerk who they obey hovering over them.
The geth are not what I am envisioning. The geth have a collective intelligence but that intelligence has what we would call "free will" or "human agency" or something approximating it. That intelligence voluntarily obeys the Reapers because it believes that it will derive benefit from that obedience.

I am proposing that the Iocrym may be something more akin to a heat-seeking missile; an entity with free will has set the Iocrym in motion, but their actions are purely deterministic. If you are being pursued by a missile, it is not because you are at war with missiles.
Cirevam wrote:
If humans are enough of a threat to the universe with their immense energy consumption and the quarantine is effective, then an alien race so advanced might not think that it's worth the trouble to send one of their own into human space. Just send the equivalent of autons like Watch TV is saying and let them take care of it. Also, we know of at least one Iocrym AI. The building is identical to the other Iocrym stations in Heretic, so one could say that those stations all contain AI that are controlling the Iocrym ships. So it could be that the Iocrym are just guard bots because humans aren't enough of a threat to require direct ancient alien intervention, but they're still dangerous and need to be fenced in.
Not quite; I'm not arguing that "humans aren't enough of a threat to require direct ancient alien intervention". Rather, my theory is that the Iocrym are that direct ancient alien intervention. They are the medium through which some other entity has chosen to interact with humanity. The Iocrym could in fact be the strongest, most forceful, most direct possible response that that entity is able to make.
Amariithynar
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Watch TV, Do Nothing wrote:I am proposing that the Iocrym may be something more akin to a heat-seeking missile; an entity with free will has set the Iocrym in motion, but their actions are purely deterministic. If you are being pursued by a missile, it is not because you are at war with missiles.
something more akin to the Collectors, then; Insectoid, perhaps a hivemind? I had a theory that perhaps they were programmed to eradicate chaos- and what is more chaotic than human life?
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Amariithynar wrote:
Watch TV, Do Nothing wrote:I am proposing that the Iocrym may be something more akin to a heat-seeking missile; an entity with free will has set the Iocrym in motion, but their actions are purely deterministic. If you are being pursued by a missile, it is not because you are at war with missiles.
something more akin to the Collectors, then; Insectoid, perhaps a hivemind? I had a theory that perhaps they were programmed to eradicate chaos- and what is more chaotic than human life?
"Upon studying the Collectors, Mordin Solus surmised that the Collectors are in fact mindless drones, "closer to husks than slaves" and lacking any form of culture. He observed that the Collectors show no concern for self-preservation, and will die in battle even if their fight is completely pointless. Believing that culture is impossible without intelligence, he hypothesized that the Collector living areas and bases are completely without any kind of art or creativity. All Collector technology and constructions, he said, exist only for their utility without ergonomics taken into account."

That sounds about right.
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christian
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just a stupid question...

If Domina wants "us" to reach the core of the galaxy, and is a alien race so powerful and all knowing, why they just don't give us the power to rival the Iocrym and breach the QZ?

....Well teach us something useful, like a big "butt kicker" antimatter weapon
Amariithynar
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Because we haven't earned our place, then. All that would prove is that we're at least able to emulate monkeys to the level of pressing a button. To get there -on our own power- is where it seems to stand. A test, perhaps a rite of passage... Though it could be entirely that it was supposed that the iocrym could keep anything out, and that we'd exterminate ourselves all on our own with all the bickering factions at war with each other.
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christian wrote:just a stupid question...

If Domina wants "us" to reach the core of the galaxy, and is a alien race so powerful and all knowing, why they just don't give us the power to rival the Iocrym and breach the QZ?

....Well teach us something useful, like a big "butt kicker" antimatter weapon
Ironically, it's actually the Iocrym that gave humans the power to breach the QZ when they first gave us the technological advances needed to create weapons that rival their own.
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Perhaps something of a different view, but what if the player is controlled/protected by Oracus?

The invoke powers are then explained, and it could easily monitor the actions of the player from that point. Rewarding donations to Domina would only further convince the player that the guiding hand s/he's following is what it says it is, and is using that to escape the QZ via inhabiting the player's subconscious. The Huari priest's vision would also then be explained.

Actually, that would also explain the Iocrym's lack of knowledge about the pilgrims, too. Domina, if it is calling them, would (likely) not want them to die vs the Iocrym.

Eh, only speculation, but that's my viewpoint.
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Levail wrote:Perhaps something of a different view, but what if the player is controlled/protected by Oracus?

The invoke powers are then explained, and it could easily monitor the actions of the player from that point. Rewarding donations to Domina would only further convince the player that the guiding hand s/he's following is what it says it is, and is using that to escape the QZ via inhabiting the player's subconscious. The Huari priest's vision would also then be explained.

Actually, that would also explain the Iocrym's lack of knowledge about the pilgrims, too. Domina, if it is calling them, would (likely) not want them to die vs the Iocrym.

Eh, only speculation, but that's my viewpoint.
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A pilgrim called by Oracus to reach the core... Hm.

I feel an adventure extension coming along.
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