Transcendence System Computer Requirements

[DigaRW]

Thanks to you all, it's helped me to build walkthrough.

[TheLoneWolf]

@DigaRW
Where is the walkthrough?

@Ferdinand I dont know what you did in the lab but if you dont want to get laughed at, never say that again. There is no relation between human eye and fps. The human eye gathers information .i.e. sees the surrounding in CONTINUOS MOTION and not in FPS. And FPS is NOT just a number to measure the effeciency or power of the engine. FPS = FRAMES PER SECOND. It is just a measure how fast the situation or the scene going on the screen changes per second. The world doesnt work on FPS. Human eye doesnt concieve in FPS. Now why do we get low fps sometimes? It would be better if you ask the details about this from a CAD user. So in games, on the screen there is a character, lets suppose this all. So the character (clothes and all) is composed of 'polygons' (and pixels ofcourse. But i wont have their functions and roles included to make my statement less confusing). These polygons are essentially geometrical shapes. They are 'rendered'. A normal transcendence modder will understand all the jargon ofcourse. There are other factors too, like mesh. We wont include that in this post. So the smaller the polygons, the greater their density and the more smooth the on-screen character looks. But it takes equally more gpu horsepower. So the gpu has to provide frames with those high polygons everytime the frame changes. This drastically changes the FPS. Because it takes more time for the same gpu to provide the high polygons. If we lower the polygons (or the resolution), it causes a boosted framerate because the gpu now has to do lesser work. You can do an experiment to verify this. If you have a recent gen game or a game released 3yrs ago and a mediocre pc, launch the game and go to settings. Crank all the eyecandy up (except AA) and then play the game. You would notice that the fps has dropped and the game becomes unplayable. This is because there are two time zones. Game time and real world time. So if we take my ^^^ statement in consideration, much has passed in game while the gpu provided you the information on screen. So the gpu tries to keep up. It doesnt work on the frames lost when it was providing the info. It works on the next one and so on. Now if we lower the load then the FPS go back to normal. This is because the gpu is now providing the info faster because it has lesser work to do per frame. So FPS do matter. The game runs a lot more smoother. Now you said that movies work at 24 fps and we see them fluid. My answer: The working of a pc monitor and a TV set is huge. The TVs (and film makers) use an effect called motion blur. This causes the movies to look that smooth.

Now for the main question. Transcendence and 30FPS. I believe that George can provide a better answer. But according to me, the transcendence engine is able to provide 30FPS in all. It means that to keep up with the in game time, the gpu must provide 30FPS. Now this is a rare case ^_^ and not seen in other games btw.

[sun1404]

I think what Ferdinand meant was not 'FPS is dependent on human perception' but rather 'There's no real need to make FPS higher than 30, because human eyes couldn't see the difference'. And actually, that's true. If an image changes too fast, human couldn't see the change happening. In a sense, human does perceive the world in frames per second, in that we cannot detect movements that happen in less than a set amount of time. For example, all electric lights (except LED), including lamps and TV, flicker at a very fast rate, but you do not see this, because the flickers happens in less than the minimum time you need to register the change.

On to monitor FPS: If the entire screen is painted all at once per each frame, human will perceive the images as continuous movement at 30 FPS. If the screen is painted piece by piece (interlaced), then higher FPS will be needed, so that all in all the new image parts get painted at least 30 times per second.

[Ferdinand]

@ TheLoneWolf

Your answer is exactly what I expected. And indeed you are right in 1 aspect, the human eye does not work in FPS. I never implied or said that.
What I did say is that the human vision (which is not only the eye but also brain, nervous sytem etc.) in general is incapable of distinguising a difference in motion perception in framerates that are 25 fps or more. This is a known scientific fact! Nothing to laugh at at all.
Beyond perception, there are ways that you can manipulate a single frame when using framerates above 30fps that can be entirely different from the rest and you will never consiously know or see that, but nevertheless you have seen the frame and can unconsiously get an impulse from it. It is cleverly used in advertisements in movies, television and other media.

And then you have the technical limitation of current display devices that they can only change anything you want to display a maximum of 60 times per second no matter if you want to change only 1 single pixel or all the pixels at once.

[TheLoneWolf]

Alright guys. I am in an impression that both of you own consoles and have never really gotten into PC gaming (which i have in practice for 8+ yrs) to see the whole picture. You guys are still relating FPS and human eyes. And who was this Robert Hooke who gave you this fact? It is false. Totally false. I can differentiate between 30fps and 60fps rather easily. Why cant you guys? Maybe you never saw a game @ 60fps. Movies will ever remain the same because of motion blur. 60fps means that the frame changes 60 times per second i.e the 'picture' on the screen changes 60 times in a second. High fps is like rain. You cant track one single drop. FRAMES ARE AS REAL AS THE EQUATOR OR TROPIC OF CANCER (which are imaginary lines). People are not mad throwing money on $1000+ gpus while (according to you guys) they can get the same experience @ 30fps which they can achieve easily with a single gtx 970 or maybe a gtx 980 at higher resolutions. 60fps is more fluid, more reactive (less input lag, which console peasants dont know about) and much more BEAUTIFUL! Thats why 60fps is the holy grail of pc gaming. Everything happens at sync with game time @ 60fps. Go home, get a pc, buy witcher 3 and then differentiate between 30fps and 60fps and then YOU TELL ME!
So there is my more direct approach. No offense meant to anyone. I just got a lil' hyped! And i can look up for proof too, unless you are console peasants. Lol!

[Ferdinand]

One last reply on this from my side. Framerate in games matter because you need at least double the framerate of your screens native FPS to render smooth pictures.

So for your information, a very simple explanation about how videocards and monitors work together:
GPU's work by filling framebuffers, which are in fact in memory replications of what is on your screen. Your screen is only capable of displaying one static picture every 1/60 second. So when your display is capable of displaying 60 pictures per second and you want smooth gameplay, the game engine needs to render everything in the backbuffer while what is on your screen is the foreground buffer. On every refresh of your screen (60 times a second) the backbuffer becomes the foregroundbuffer (bufferflipping). This way the engine can render everything offscreen. The faster the engine can render, the more buffers it can fill in the time that is necessary to refresh your screen. I am sure you know that only backbuffers can be changed. once the picture is on your screen it cannot be changed anymore. So in order to use double buffering in which everything can be rendered offscreen, you need a videocard that is at least capable of doing 120 fps at your native screen resolution. anything less will produce notable artifarcts or slowness. Got a faster card, then you can use triple buffering, or do better rendering with doublebuffer etc.

Do you ever watch anything on youtube, or create your own movies with a digital camera? None of these go over 30fps.
Have you got an incandescent (not from the St kats planet ) lightbulb or fluorescent light in your house like Sun1404 says, it flickers at 50 Hz, would surprise me if you ever noticed that.

I am definitely not into console gaming. But have however worked for over 10 years in developing displays, testing displays ranging from very simple television devices and monitors to true holographic displays and very high end monitors for CAD uses. That company was back then the biggest manufacturer of display devices in the world. (still is one of the biggest today). I have been involved in every form of testing these devices and what I said in my first post about motion perception is confirmed by every test on every kind of display ever done.

[DigaRW]

@TheLoneWolf
My walkthrough isn't completed, even not more than 20%. And, I'm not only focused building Walkthrough, I have other task that want to do like writing a zombie story or anything.

[TheLoneWolf]

@Ferdinand
Seriously you cant tell 30fps and 60fps apart? In my eyes these 30fps camera recordings are mostly not smooth.
@DigaRW
I can help with the zombie story!

[DigaRW]

Maybe... I'm using my own language.

[TheLoneWolf]

And whats that? Iocrym language haha!

[DigaRW]

Indonesian. But if you have some (In English, of course), please share to me. I will use it as sample.

[sun1404]

The fact that you can sometimes notice imperfections in 30 fps videos or games is because the video's (or game's) 30 frames per second doesn't always correlate with your screen's frames changing. What happen then is that the actual change rate is lower than 30. Frames still gets painted 30 or 60 times per second, but the new frame still paints the old image, or sometimes skip some images. In order to have the frames change synchronize, you push the program's fps very high so that it always have some buffer.

Another reason 30 fps games or videos can seem snappy is because something moves too fast, so that in one frame it's here, in another it's at another location without connecting movement visible, so the location change seems unnatural. Higher fps solves this to an extent, and higher fps games often have other techniques to reduce such problems.

Unless you have supervision, you would see 30 fps images sequence as smooth movement. And no, no one is relating FPS to human vision any more than you are. I don't have consoles, either.

And if you will accept Wikipedia as a source of reference:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_fusion_threshold - see especially 'Technological considerations'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_of_vision - see 'film systems' and below