damage type problem

[Betelgeuse]

What do you mean by hit with a rift in space time? I wouldn't mind adding more damage actions but I can't really think of what that wouldn't do. If you have any damage actions to add please say.

I don't understand what would speed do that isn't covered by damage? Would you resist a slow thing differently than a fast thing? If not wouldn't that be a part of damage?

[bluesaberist]

The speed could be part of the damage, but it would be better, in my opinion, to have it seperatly. The damage type most affected by speed would be kinetic. Kinetic weapons do damage by running into things. If the speed is low, the damage is low. I will give an example: If you drop a ping-pong ball on a trampoline (the trampoline being the shield and ball being the projectile), it will not do any damage. If you shoot that same ping-pong ball at the trampoline with a speed of three million mph, it would put a hole in the trampoline, and probably a small crater in the ground underneath. Not to mention the heat produced by the trampoline and ground to slow it down.

As far as damage types; maybe what I am saying is actualy a combination of composition and damage action. The composition of a rift in space time is nil. It's not a matter of composition. But it can still cause damage (Use you imagination for this one. (Objects suddenly changeing composition, things phasing in and out of existance, sensors reading things that are not there... etc))
But then, the composition for a black hole is atoms that defy the laws of physics. What kind of damage does that do? It would probably be a mix of impact, nuclear, shear (can you define shear better?), distortion. But there would have to be somthing else, maybe some kind of graviton damage. Like the ship being crushed once shields are down.

[OddBob]

If you drop a ping-pong ball on a trampoline (the trampoline being the shield and ball being the projectile), it will not do any damage. If you shoot that same ping-pong ball at the trampoline with a speed of three million mph, it would put a hole in the trampoline, and probably a small crater in the ground underneath. Not to mention the heat produced by the trampoline and ground to slow it down.

You are missing Betel's point. Both those weapons have different damages - damage still exists in the proposed system.
additionally, the first case is represented by low momentum, the second is represented by high momentum.

[Betelgeuse]

As far as damage types; maybe what I am saying is actualy a combination of composition and damage action. The composition of a rift in space time is nil. It's not a matter of composition. But it can still cause damage (Use you imagination for this one. (Objects suddenly changeing composition, things phasing in and out of existance, sensors reading things that are not there... etc))

Well its kind of hard to complain about damage actions that you made up (if we need more actions put them down). Also suddenly changing composition would be nuclear. As for composition how does space/time sound?

here are what I see as what each of the actions do (they may not be named the best and may be missing some please say what is mission)
I see damage action as what it does the most damage with most things do some impact damage but mostly that isn't what does most of the damage.

impact: simple just hit it with a massive object
nuclear: Change of the nuclear structure of the target.
radiation: Damage that is caused by radioactive material. This is kind a mix of nuclear and chemical.
chemical: Damage through chemical reactions like acids.
shear: Tearing apart damage.
heat: Damage by changing the heat.
distortion: Damage by distorting the shield/armor.
electrical: Damage by electrocuting it.

The reason I made the revision was because in our first version there was very little in it that that wasn't a simplified number and those don't seem interesting. As you said momentum isn't a linear thing. Also remember we have to simplify them we can not have a number because we need to put the resistance for each for every armor and the more that are added makes it harder.

[digdug]

nuclear: Change of the nuclear structure of the target.

I thought that nuclear was "damage by energy generated by nuclear reactions"

That version of nuclear seems a little extreme.

[Betelgeuse]

well "damage by energy generated by nuclear reactions" is just the other damage actions, it would depend on the type of nuclear device.

There was also an idea of having multiple damage types on a single shot that would fix the things that do multiple damage actions.

[bluesaberist]

OddBob said:

If you drop a ping-pong ball on a trampoline (the trampoline being the shield and ball being the projectile), it will not do any damage. If you shoot that same ping-pong ball at the trampoline with a speed of three million mph, it would put a hole in the trampoline, and probably a small crater in the ground underneath. Not to mention the heat produced by the trampoline and ground to slow it down.

You are missing Betel's point. Both those weapons have different damages - damage still exists in the proposed system.
additionally, the first case is represented by low momentum, the second is represented by high momentum.

Yes. Both of the weapons have different damage types. That is what I was saying. I think that Betelgeuse's idea of a space/time composition would help (though it needs a better name), but we should have another damage type. Maybe somthing like a "transform" damage. An example if this damage type: When you get hit, suddenly your armor changes from plasteel to ceramic. Or it could be more complex than that. You get hit and the hp and damage absorb get changed. Of course, this could also happen to weapons and shields, no need make just the armor change. Then you could need a confues damage type, that would mess up sensor and comunications.

Multiple damage types are another definetly needed addition. Especaily for blast weapons to do kinetic damage and vice versa.(I just used the old damage type 'cause they sayed what I wanted to say best.)

As for OddBobs case against my trampoline example:
Maybe speed is needed only for kinetic damage. Pretty much all of the other damage types would do the same amount of damage weither they hit with high speed or low speed. Kinetic weapons, on the other hand, only do damage when travleing at high velocity, and their mass is then involved to. So maybe mass and speed should be part of kinetic damage and not the whole damage calculation.

By the way, would a small chemical exsplosive do chemical damage? Because you have acid type damage down under chemical, but acids and explosives do damage much differently.

[Betelgeuse]

a small chemical explosive would do impact damage (maybe a small heat damage too depending on the type of explosive)

I would happily get rid of momentum.

I want to make clear that damage actions are just how the weapon changes the armor (I will ignore shields in this case due to those are just made up) so an explosive would do impact damage. While some other kinds of things would do heat damage (thermite reaction or something like that)

Things that do effects would be separate like it is now like blinding would be separate but they still do damage. A weapon that has an effect of changing the armor resistances would be an extra effect like blinding.

[OddBob]

Kinetic weapons, on the other hand, only do damage when travleing at high velocity, and their mass is then involved to. So maybe mass and speed should be part of kinetic damage and not the whole damage calculation.

Mass and speed ARE part of the damage: momentum = mass * velocity.

A very massive weapon need not move fast at all to do damage.

[F50]

Which of these are the same?


1. hit by a very small, very massive object, going very fast.

2. hit by a very large, very massive object, going very fast.

3. hit by a very large, not very massive object, going very fast.

4. hit by a very large, very massive object, going very slow.

[Betelgeuse]

in terms of doing damage 3 and 4 are the same.

1 is not the same because it can go through weak parts of an armor unlike the large ones

2 two is just a hugely damaging thing

I like the idea of throwing out momentum and just representing the speed and mass in that case with the damage because its only in the impact damage action that it really matters.