hard problem plot edition

[Betelgeuse]

How do we put in a interesting plot that isn't always the same that can still be interesting after many games?

Plot is hard to make in a game like this is that it is meant to played many times and is based on alot of randomness. Plus there is the fact the game allows you to play many different ways such as peaceful trader or anti commonwealth.

[Charon Mass of Goo]

Plus there is the fact the game allows you to play many different ways such as peaceful trader or anti commonwealth.

Being able to play as Anti-Commonwealth isn't always a good thing, for Commonwealth tend to make up the bulk of the game, so far.

We need new races to incorporate into the game, and making random system encounters with those races that include Side-Plots that don't stray too far from the main Plot would make it interesting, and the point of Random Encounters would be so that you wouldn't run into the same, say, five races, every single game. You might run into 2 or 3 of those races at a time, and those races would occupy one or two systems to enhance the side-plot.

Every new game you play would randomly select between 5 different races and randomly put a couple in the game after St K's star system. Of course, going into the side-plot would be optional.

Thats just an Idea to make it interesting. Don't know and don't care if thats what you are talking about.

[Psycholis]

The one thing that got to me was that some of the harder missions gave less than desirable rewards. EG saving the Charon Korolov or helping the Rogue Antartica. Both are technically more challenging and the rewards are sketchy. The alternatives to these missions - letting korolov die and destroying the antartica - give much better long term rewards. There doesn't seem to be any incentive to do the harder missions. I don't know if that counts towards major plot issue, but it's something that was bothering me personally.

[Periculi]

Oh, I like this topic.

Betelgeuse, perhaps we can find ways to implement some forms of plot generation. For instance, story arcs could be generated from a random pool of elements- these arcs could offer a variety of plot links to act on, or branches to follow. Our main limits would be the difficulty and number of interweaving random plot elements, or the complexity of writing some code to make sensible and interesting random elements in the script language.

Each 'thread' or branch in an arc would need to exist, to be made- and it's work for sure! To have really engaging material means some serious story crafting (writing) would be required.

The real question is who would be doing the work, or better yet- how would any plot or story arc generation system be made expandable to the mod makers and also in small chunks that allowed anyone to add in elements and fill in more details easily?

[Charon Mass of Goo]

Each 'thread' or branch in an arc would need to exist, to be made- and it's work for sure! To have really engaging material means some serious story crafting (writing) would be required.

I believe I could help with the "Engaging Material" and "Serious Story Crafting" part. I'd love to partake in such an Idea, if it gets a majority vote, and is approved by George... This idea rules (Only if I get to help do the Story Crafting, cause if I don't, then I think you FAIL)

[digdug]

branched and multibranched plots are a really good idea in my opinion, so that you're forced to choose 1.
Many games are needed to see the ending of each plot, making the game more replayable and interesting.


I'm not good at writing plots, but I can always help with coding.

[Charon Mass of Goo]

-Points at chest- Me am good at writing. Me good writer. Fear CharonMassofGoo, he good writer.

[OddBob]

I am of the opinion that any actual story type of plot is going to quickly become repetitive and tiring. "more plots" doesn't help because, for one, it weakens each individual one, and two - a good story-type plot is going to take a lot of freedom from the player.

The best way I belive if you would like to further the plot is to

A. put in things which are not missions but provide some kind of mystery or backstory - and will require several games to really find out about - once you have 'all the pieces' you will of course have lost the novelty of that element but it is not a boring mission you have to play through every time either. There are some things in this already - people are wondering about certain characters (lord mikho) and such and they can have interesting things tied to them that are not missions.

B. I am reminded of the "plot" of Nethack (this is common in many roguelikes as well). Find the Amulet. That is basically it. Similar to "find the heretic gate". But in order to get at the amulet first you must learn about the ritual that opens the sanctum and then find all the component parts, the book, the candles, and the bell, not to mention you actually have to GET there. There is no story proper in this game but despite that I have enjoyed reading very long accounts of other people's games - because due to the nature of the environment very interesting things can happen during the course of these simple goals, in fact things which could not happen in a more story based game. The player creates his own story from a broad outline of tasks and it is still interesting and varied.

I believe such a system is currently in place in transcendence, and while it could certainly do with expansion it functions very well - there are some "stories" around but most of them are for one, optional and two, they may be completed in different ways - simply by introducing a few people to tell you what to do and then giving you a choice whether to do any or all of them, with different results for every combination makes a good replayable plot element - i.e. the antarctica missions.

[Charon Mass of Goo]

Whatever floats your boat. We just need to think of something.

[Ttech]

Look for ideas in things that you like the most - Books, TV, other games. Got me very far.

[Aury]

It might help if a "semi-linear" path was made rather than travelling through the systems in a neat little line. Semi linear would have maybe two-three systems side by side making for 3-4 star gates in each system (before, after, and parallel. A fourth for the "dead end" "bonus" systems). The "bonus systems" would be dead end ones (one stargate) with maybe bonus missions and groups to trade, fight, work with.
Some systems would be strictly linear- having no parallel system, but 4 gates- 2 for before, and 2 for after- like st. kats (4), heretic (has 2-3), pre-heretic (if heretic has only 2), eridani (2), and the core/final system (2)

[Ttech]

It might help if a "semi-linear" path was made rather than travelling through the systems in a neat little line. Semi linear would have maybe two-three systems side by side making for 3-4 star gates in each system (before, after, and parallel. A fourth for the "dead end" "bonus" systems). The "bonus systems" would be dead end ones (one stargate) with maybe bonus missions and groups to trade, fight, work with.
Some systems would be strictly linear- having no parallel system, but 4 gates- 2 for before, and 2 for after- like st. kats (4), heretic (has 2-3), pre-heretic (if heretic has only 2), eridani (2), and the core/final system (2)

yes that is not a bad idea.

[Aury]

It might help if a "semi-linear" path was made rather than travelling through the systems in a neat little line. Semi linear would have maybe two-three systems side by side making for 3-4 star gates in each system (before, after, and parallel. A fourth for the "dead end" "bonus" systems). The "bonus systems" would be dead end ones (one stargate) with maybe bonus missions and groups to trade, fight, work with.
Some systems would be strictly linear- having no parallel system, but 4 gates- 2 for before, and 2 for after- like st. kats (4), heretic (has 2-3), pre-heretic (if heretic has only 2), eridani (2), and the core/final system (2)

yes that is not a bad idea.

I got it from the gate-network mod. This is sort of a hybrid between the two. It should be doable... (and it opens up possibilities for creative missions)

[Ttech]

It might help if a "semi-linear" path was made rather than travelling through the systems in a neat little line. Semi linear would have maybe two-three systems side by side making for 3-4 star gates in each system (before, after, and parallel. A fourth for the "dead end" "bonus" systems). The "bonus systems" would be dead end ones (one stargate) with maybe bonus missions and groups to trade, fight, work with.
Some systems would be strictly linear- having no parallel system, but 4 gates- 2 for before, and 2 for after- like st. kats (4), heretic (has 2-3), pre-heretic (if heretic has only 2), eridani (2), and the core/final system (2)

yes that is not a bad idea.

I got it from the gate-network mod. This is sort of a hybrid between the two. It should be doable... (and it opens up possibilities for creative missions)

Ah, should but and is are very different. lol

[Aury]

Ah, should but and is are very different. lol

what? too many conjunctions there...