weapon lifetimes

[Betelgeuse]

if everything is super balanced why change from one thing to a different thing at all other than the give yourself a disadvantage because you are not used to it? People who play rts nearly always play the same faction over and over no matter how balanced it is.

There is tons of randomness in sports because you are playing against people. People do unexpected things all the time. There is also the issue of we are not playing against each other. The computer will not improve no matter how many times we play against it so after a few times the computer will fail at suprising unlike humans that improve and come up with new strats all the time.

This game shouldn't be about having the best stuff it should be about making due with what you have but having things forever and being able to skip systems takes away from that.

[TedStudley]

maybe allow the player to hire a mechanic

[dvlenk6]

I was USAF flight crew for several years. Weapons systems take tremendous amounts of upkeep to maintain working condition. The more advanced the system, the more upkeep it requires is the general trend. Without regular maintanence, I wouldn't expect a sophisticated weapon to continue to function for very long, maybe a month at most, depending on how much use it was getting.

That said, for Transcendence, I think a small chance of malfunctions would be all right, but not enough to be a constant harrassment to the player. That would just be a drag.

[Fossaman]

I'm mostly against this idea; I've blown my advanced tritium cannon a couple times, and it really sucks.

However, if items like patch spiders and repairing nanos could function to repair weapons, and if stations were capable of limited repairs to them, I would be okay with this. I wouldn't want it to become central to the game, but I could handle it being a peripheral 'Oh yeah, I need to go get some maintenance done.' sort of thing every now and then.

[Blinzler]

Well, one could always look at if from the other side.
As far as I understand up to this point it's just black & white - weapon working or being dead weight.
Why not implement it in such a way that you have a procentual display of weapon-fitness (you know what i mean).
So you could always sneak a peak and check if you should hurry and have the weapon overhauled?

[Sponge]

That's better, but it's still more of a pain than it should be. However, more of a "wearing out" system might actually be cool. Instead of your weapon just deciding to break, perhaps it could start to shoot more randomly than normal, omni turrets could start to slow down or not cover the full 360 degree spread, slightly less damage could be dealt, shells could explode in the barrel, etc. I'm not in the least opposed to that, especially if there's a fitness indicator like Blinzer suggested. It's just the whole "Your weapon stopped working" thing that gets me. If there's a slight but noticeable set of negative effects as your weapons wear down, it just becomes another element of variance in the game.

It could even be cool to have some wear down effects that were slightly positive. For example, your weapon randomly starts to overcharge itself, draining more power from your reactor but firing with increased damage every few shots.

[dvlenk6]

Ever play 'Betrayal at Krondor'?
Weapons in that game have a wear rating in percentage. if a sword that does 10 damage (base) is 80%(good), it will do 8 damage. And so on. Purchase and resale prices are modified by the percentage also.

When a weapon gets pretty low, the chance of it outright breaking increases. I think you have to be below 50% or something, for it to actually break.

There are 'whetstones' (for bladed weapons) and some kind of oil (for bowstrings) that will partially repair the weapon, more so if the character is good at repairwork. You never really have a 100% weapon, usually, if you keep up on it, you'll be in the 90's % range.

Blacksmiths (for bladed weapons and armor) and bowyers (for crossbows) can repair them to 100%. the lower it is when you take it to them, the more it costs to have the repair done.

Maybe some kind of system like that would work a little better than just breaking down.

It would still be, IMO, more of a hassle than anything else; but at least that way, you could have some simulated wear and tear without just losing weapons and shields, which really sucks.

EDIT - there's hammers for working on armor.

[Karl]

In games that have item wear percentages I've found that the main effect of that is that now you have another chore: regularly maintaining your stuff. (Click to repair item A... Click to repair item B... Click to repair item C... Click to repair item D...)

What's the effect of that on gameplay? I agree with dvlenk6 that it's always been more of a hassle then anything else, but at least it's better then instant breakage.

[Betelgeuse]

it becomes part of the gameplay. You have to have a balance between aspects of gameplay. Everything can't be simplified to far or it kills replayablity. Like lets make everything combat it seems to be the core game then the game turns into astroids.
If this is a good idea or not please give better reasons than you don't want to do it because its not part of your play style.

[Sponge]

Honestly, how does having to repair a weapon every ten minutes add to replayability? I find even repair systems to be a pain in the side, because, as Karl said, it's just a bunch of clicks. My suggestion above adds in the whole "take care of your weapons" deal while not forcing anyone to actually go get them repaired. They'll just start acting up a bit, which adds diversity, too.

[dvlenk6]

It isn't a bad idea; but there seems to me to be more pressing issues like randomization of enemy equipment, stargate and starsystem flexibility, etc.

I don't really mind doing upkeep on equipment. Some of my favorite games have this as a feature (BAK, Ultima Underworld I & II). The Ultimas integrate it very niely into the overall game; but in BAK, it becomes PITA after a while, because the decay rate is too high.

If equipment wear is too become part of Transcendence, there would have to be means to repair. That was my point. Whether it would be station, items, or a mixture of the two is a question that would have to be answered before it could be put into the game.

Also, how fast does the equipment wear out?
Does all equipment have the same rate of wear?
Ultima has differing rates of wear and also has items that are immune to wear. These are important considerations when equiping. An item that doesn't wear out is tempting, even if it is of lesser potency than another item.
There are some items that break immediately upon use, but have tremendous impact. One example is the 'Glass Sword'. It shatters on a hit; but does 255 damage (the best durable long sword in the game does something around 3d10+strength).
Generally, the more powerful items have a slower wear rate.

[OddBob]

One example is the 'Glass Sword'. It shatters on a hit; but does 255 damage (the best durable long sword in the game does something around 3d10+strength).
Generally, the more powerful items have a slower wear rate.

I like this. I can imagine a hugely powerful weapon that tears itself (and maybe you) apart after a few shots. Perhaps someone like the penitent order would use it.

[dvlenk6]

Those glass swords come in really handy against the 'boss' monsters and characters. I've found 7 of them. They are very rare. There are 2 or 3 that are always in the same spot, but other ones can be randomly generated.
- - - - -
Back to Transcendence.
Armor and Shields could slowly lose hit points over time. I mean max hit points. i.e. a Yoroi S100 might drop from 75 in increments as it accumulates absorbed damage.

Engines are notorious for losing power with usage as the internal parts begin to wear out.

So, I guess it depends what you like about Transcendence. If it is important to you that it be 'realistic', then there should be wear on equipment...and scaled graphics...and gravity...and...etc

If playability and just plain fun are more improtant to you, then probably shouldn't have wear or any of the other stuff.

[OddBob]

Armor and Shields could slowly lose hit points over time. I mean max hit points. i.e. a Yoroi S100 might drop from 75 in increments as it accumulates absorbed damage.

I think it would be neat if occasionally, when taking HUGE amounts of damage (guaranteed for anything that takes your shield from at least 50% to zero) that your shield would lose a few max HP (regainable by maintenance from a kit or at a station).



I can think of two ways to do this:

1. The same model as the weapon breaking. It would happen infrequently and you'd maybe fix it once per game (what with switching shields so often.) I honestly don't like this as much as the next:

2. Shields become sort of like regenerable armor. If you take a lot of hits, your max HP goes down significantly, but slowly regains over time, up to a point.

Say you're fighting off a Ranx dread. You take four kiloton shots to your 100 HP shield, causing 80 regular damage. You take 8 "temporary max HP reduction", making the new max 92. After a few minutes, your max is back up to 99, but without maintenance you can't go any further.

Shields could lose efficiency rather quickly from 100%, but by the time you get to 50% or some other arbitrary number, it has dropped off so as to be almost impossible.

A similar system could be applied at least to energy weapons. Prolonged use results in a temporary reduction in damage/range/efficiency, while multiple, extended bouts of prolonged use, or just many many individual prolonged uses will damage it a little bit permanantly (well, until you get it repaired).

I think this sort of has the best of both worlds: Eventually, if you abuse your equipment enough, you WILL have to repair it, but normal overuse just result in a temporary "cooldown period" where you are just a little disadvantaged.

[evilbob]

To be honest, I hate the idea of shields degenerating.
I don't wanna buy a 100hp shield if I can't go wading into a horde of enemies and come out on top. Its like punishing the player for getting into fights, and reparing it sounds like the most tedious activity ever- for example, fighting ares. I'd have to get my shields repaired after every fly-by. and when the nearest starion capable of reparing my shields is half a system away, I don't wanna be running back and forth repairing/taking down one or two ships.