Game Balance

[Aury]

They would be analogous to criticals in classic BT.

What would be? the expanded device slot-things?

[Fossaman]

I'd suggest that someone try out the device slots thing and see what happens. The code's in place already, isn't it?

[Aury]

I'd suggest that someone try out the device slots thing and see what happens. The code's in place already, isn't it?

Didn't someone already try that?... not sure, I might be confused...

[bluesaberist]

FAVORITE ITEM

1. IM90 (6 votes)
2. Kaidun shield (4 votes)
3. Fusionfire howitzer (3 votes)
4. Starcannon (3 votes)
5. Blue etherium crystal (3 votes)

OVERPOWERED ITEM

1. Blue etherium crystal (6 votes)
2. Class V deflector (4 votes)
3. IM90 (3 votes)
4. Starcannon (3 votes)
5. Nephren P5 (2 votes)

UNDERPOWERED ITEM

1. Qianlong archannon (4 votes)
2. Lazarus shield (1 vote)
3. Dvalin ion9 (1 vote)
4. Ares plasma cannon (1 vote)
5. Rasiermesser launcher (1 vote)

OK, so I missed my chance to comment in that thread, but I still have some thoughts on these. I don't think blue crystals are over powered, for most of the time you can use them. There might be two systems that they are extremely valuable. But the Sung and Ares turrets cause them to be not as useful. By Point Juno, I usually switch to yellow.

The class V is sitting right in the middle of the fine line between balanced and overpowered. A little more power use like you mention below might help.

I stopped using the IM90 since sometime back in .98d, so unless it has gotten more powerful, I don't think it is OP.

Katanas could draw a bit more power, but if you nerf them more than that they become useless.

I have never used the P5 that I can remember (It's a shield generator right?)

I agree that all those are underpowered, ecept that I have never gotten the Ion9.

Here are some of the things I'm planning to do for balance. Please let me know your thoughts:

1. In RC1 I made field crystals rarer, which doesn't really solve the problem. Instead, I'm going to try to make field crystals "burn out" after a while. I think this might balance them better (and I would make them as common as they were in 0.99). Thoughts?

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Could work, but they should last at least four or five systems, and burn out suddenly, with no warning, or they should only last three or four systems and give you a message a decent time before they burn.

2. The class V deflector probably just needs more power consumption to balance (I can't remember if I already did that in RC1).

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Sounds fair.

3. I don't know what to do about the IM90.

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Then leave it as it is, I never use it because there are better weapons when flying the wolfen.

4. I'm considering changing the Kaidun so that it requires 2 device slots. That makes it suitable for the freighter (which needs it) but less desirable for the Wolfen. Thoughts?

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Please don't.  It loses HP fast enough in a fight that it balances out.  Double slotting it would really make it bad when flying the Wolfen.  I already went without a launcher last play through because of low slot count.

5. I buffed the Qianlong in RC1/2--interested in thoughts.

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I haven't tried it yet.

6. I'm considering re-balancing the range of weapons (based on another thread). I think it makes sense to reduce the range of many energy weapons.

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Any shorter and they will be useless, although, maybe some early game lasers.  That could be what makes the X-ray and Turbos so much better - higher range.

7. I'm interested in what people think about the damage type resistance curve for shields. Hopefully they make armor more important, but I think I also need to buff armor a little bit. In particular, I've added more armor repairing items to the mid/late gate (based on suggestions from fossaman). I've also made meteorsteel rad-resistant (based on suggestions from Wolfy). Other thoughts?

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I will look for the changes next play through, until then, I cannot comment.

8. Finally, one more question: what are some of your favorite/cool items that you would like to use, but cannot because they are underpowered?

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The IM90.
Quantum CPU, needs to lose the device slot.
Kiloton cannon.
Device damage weapons.  I want to get revenge on the ventari for the three or four reactors they blasted by making them suffer.  They should send messages out begging and pleading for mercy if you break a reactor.
Strelka launcher.  Where are the cheap guided missiles?  I want rapid fire stilettos.

[Aury]

The lazarus is almost impossible to use. Why? it requires use of the QAC (no other efficient iocrym killers... or any iocrym killers... reside within the 300MW limit safely enough (and even that requires the 1.2GW reactor).... though buffing the QAC so that it is a real competitive iocrym killer would be great.

[Atarlost]

8. Finally, one more question: what are some of your favorite/cool items that you would like to use, but cannot because they are underpowered?

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The IM90.
Quantum CPU, needs to lose the device slot.
Kiloton cannon.
Device damage weapons.  I want to get revenge on the ventari for the three or four reactors they blasted by making them suffer.  They should send messages out begging and pleading for mercy if you break a reactor.
Strelka launcher.  Where are the cheap guided missiles?  I want rapid fire stilettos.

Sorry, I can't not answer this.

How is the Makayev launcher weak? It blows away everything but the Ares launcher and NAMI heavy for both damage/ton and damage/second. That would make it the #3 launcher, but ammo shortages for the NAMI heavy bump it up to #2. If any AI ships used strelkas with a firerateadj of 10 (that is, firing at the same rate the player ship does) you'd probably be begging for a nerf.

[Fossaman]

I ran across a ship in the arena with a full speed Makayev Launcher. It killed me. Twice. And then I gave up and fought a different ship instead.

So yeah, Makayev launcher is probably fine.

[Aeonic]

Heh, Makayev with tracking missiles.

"Run away! Run away!"

[F50]

I favor short durations and large avaliabillity for field crystals, so more like 800-1500 damage per crystal that a full system.

Mayakev launcher requres that you are more maneuverable than your target. When I fought the slicer version that had Mayakev missiles as a Wolfen, it was reletively easy to defeat because it never hit me more than a few times while I was able to do continuous damage with an omni turbo, though my heavy slam cannon could've probably done it eventually. Mayakev with tracking missiles would be just scary.

The howitzers in general seem to be better that most other weapons. With the new enhancers you can get fire rates similar to weapons like the slam cannons and PK25 to take on ships close up, do more damage overall to ships in pursuit (so very easy to hit, and at that point blast-vulnerable), *and* take on buildings with ease. In general I prefer the Mark III (level 5 IIRC) to TeVs and most other level VI weapons.

The Ares positron cannon is balanced for use, but not for cost (you can find one every other commune = lots of rins). The Class V is overpowered for use, but underpowered for cost.

I really like the new shield curve. Though armor getting a buff sounds good to me though. Thinking about cost again, I would *never* buy armor from an armor dealer. You can find the stuff you need from your enemies and just enhance it with barrels. Perhaps armor should cost less? Consider also how often it needs to be replaced with better armor, its not until level IX can you expect to have it for enough time to bother buying it, and can be often found as random loot drops from stations and such.

Can Dwarg holochrol armor still be worn by the freighter? Is it still overpowered (or even more so)?


The TeV9 is so ubiquitous in the CW forces. Why? It is expensive and innefficient compared to X-Ray lasers, dual particle beams, Akan 30s, and mark IIIs.

[Aeonic]

Although now that I think about it, it might be possible to include some late-game Makayav missiles which track, but which turn veeeery slowly, so they really only curve towards the target, they don't really track it. Makes aiming a little easier is all. Of course, at longer ranges and a targeting unit, it might be a different story.

What if it were impossible to repair armor to 100%? What if the more damage it took, the more its maximum hp was reduced.. That would necessitate acquiring new armor periodically, and would be an excuse to make it cheaper.

The TeV9 is so ubiquitous in the CW forces. Why? It is expensive and innefficient compared to X-Ray lasers, dual particle beams, Akan 30s, and mark IIIs.

Because the military buys them wholesale, and they get discounts!

[Fossaman]

Because the military buys them wholesale, and they get discounts! Razz

It's true. You'll notice it gets to be cheaper than or comparable to an x-ray in cost once you've maxed out fortress missions.

[Atarlost]

I'm strongly against doing anything to make armor not repairable. Increasing the money requirements of the game risk turning mining and smuggling from optional boredom to necessary boredom.

If armor drops hadn't been reduced you'd only need to pay full price twice to get some level 3-4 stuff and again to get some level 9-10 stuff. In between you could loot blast plate from the larger Charon and Marauder ships, Dwarg armor, duralloy from Huari, and light orthosteel from the Ventari.

You can still get partial sets and bits and pieces. If they weren't fully repairable, though, you wouldn't be able to do that effectively.

[Aeonic]

You can still get partial sets and bits and pieces. If they weren't fully repairable, though, you wouldn't be able to do that effectively.

Sure you would, even if they were only 95% effective. Doesn't matter, I don't think that idea fits with the auto-repairing things like regeneration and spiders.

[Prophet]

Maybe the changes to weapons shouldn't be based on damage type and rather create some loose 'rules' for weapon abilities. Placing them in an arbitrary class to define their purpose and use. There will be weapons that break the mold or are completely separate entirely, but for your general use weapons it would be more interesting if they were more differentiated.

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Melee weapons
- currently none
- extrmely short range (1 - 10 ls)
- avg - high damage
- high rof
- avg mass
- low power use
-Generally these would be for charging into a swarm 
-Omni weapons are prevalent in this category
-Spread, mining, cool configurations in here


Skirmish weapons
- short-mid range (10 - 20 ls)
- avg damage
- average - high rof
- avg mass
- low-avg power use
-Some omni weapons in this category
-these use repeating, dual, alternating most


Long Range Weapons
- mid-long range (20 - 50 ls)
- high damage
- low rof
- high mass
- avg power use
-Most missiles would fall into this category
-Very few omni weapons if any in this category
-these uses more special abilites like WMD, momentum, passthrough,

Weapons that don't fit (and shouldn't):
Fragmenting and Tracking missiles
area attack weapons


These categories would have no impact on the weapons themselves but merely be used as a guide for creating a niche system. DamageType operates independently unless for realism/believability reasons. I think that trying to force reality into the game may break it and the best solution would involve making the weapons fun and interesting first and adding realistic flavour to make it believable second.

As for ammo weapons, there's always going to be the problem of balancing availability, mass, cost, etc. I would like to see a few general types of ammo that are widely used by many weapons. this really only applies to primary weapons, not launchers. Perhaps having 'clips' and using charges to simulate actual bullets combined with a reloading time delay? I'm not really sure if this is possible or even desireable, just a thought.

[Atarlost]

You've got the ranges extremely low there. Your "skirmish" range won't fire across the diameter of some stations. Unless images are shrunken or the speed of light increased the current ranges will mostly have to stay.