complex topologies

[Betelgeuse]

Currently in the game all stargates are one way. This is fine for set piece topologies and linear topologies but for more complex random need a way to tell if certain conditions exist first.

One easy way to do this is to allow before the game the mod maker to go through the systems and remove gates they don't want (just start with a set piece network like everything links everything and remove from there). That way it will be up to them how random it is and to make sure it will be able to be completed.

[Periculi]

That is what kaypy did for the prototype topology mod, but I didn't like the huge clumsy list that was required to make the remove gate feature work. It's not very flexible or efficient.

To get really complex with that mod would be a nightmare- adding additional gates would mean additional tables that were a repeat of the topology.. just makes things overly complex for not very much better results.

We need a method inside the <node> tag to determine the amount of gates desired, and it would be great to have it be flexible - to be able to give a null chance for a gate appearing, for instance.

However, even that has it's problems.

Node generation in-game or at run time would be ideal. If there were a few methods to allow run time creation of the topology following some guidlelines we could mod in such as max gates and max amount of nodes in branches or 'must have' nodes versus 'filler' nodes.

If you really still think that removing gates is a good idea, try expanding the mod kaypy wrote to deal with the full topology, and then add a 4th gate to the mix...

[Betelgeuse]

Node generation in-game as you are playing wouldn't work well due to you wouldn't be able to go backwards without creating gates in existing systems and I don't like that idea. Plus the gate system is determined at game start so why wait.

I have an idea maybe have the game keep generating new networks until a valid one is found for a set of paths like this.

(Path SE, SK, 4, 50)
Means there is a path between SE and SK and the shortest it can be is 4 gates and the longest path can be 50. This would also prevent stuck in a system with no way out due to then the longest path would be over 50.

These would be one way so you can even do something like this.
(Path SE, SK, 4,5)
(Path SK, SE, 6,10)
That way it would keep on making topologies until something satisfied that.

[Periculi]

Topology is a tricky thing.

I like the way that the randomly chosen segments are being built in the mod I just released- it's possible to add a lot of variance to the game without any major changes.]

The best part is that it is expandable- sets of new paths can be added in from many angles.

No code required to validate a segment for gates either.

A node generating system does not need to add gates to existing/explored systems, Betelgeuse. The generation can happen when the game starts- but rather than being limited to a static set of nodes, the game could generate some to be used as it needed them. It would require some more advanced logic to build and link the nodes, but it would also then be able to create limitless random topology structures following the guidelines.

I would never ever ever ever want 50 nodes between SE and SK. At least not without some serious changes to the enemies and game levels.

[Betelgeuse]

The generation can happen when the game starts- but rather than being limited to a static set of nodes, the game could generate some to be used as it needed them.

Err why? You want the game to make up random nodes for some reason. Plus they would still need to be validated (how would you prevent stuck in a set of systems problem).

and the 50 was just an example the major problem with topologies is that we can't validate them. If we didn't have to worry about that making random links is trivial.

[Periculi]

you can work around the validation with rootNode="true"

[Betelgeuse]

making the rootnode=true doesn't help a player who can't get out of an system with no out gate or an infinite loop.

[Periculi]

Oh, the other kind of validation.

Tough luck for us.

[Betelgeuse]

that is what the path thing was all about

[Periculi]

Unless George redesigns the way that Nodes are being read in now we are stuck with the system the way it is- I can see where you would want to use the removal method for dynamic links.

I still like the node structure, however. I like being able to define links and make spider webbed structures, and I figure that if I make a large enough set of segments and networks, even though I made them I can still get lost.

[Betelgeuse]

you don't need to change nodes to use the path system. It would just generate the nodes and links with the current system then check it with the paths if it doesn't work it makes it again and repeats.

[Periculi]

Ahh.. but how would the node <stargates> tag deal with all these changing paths?

[Betelgeuse]

at the beginning of each game it would use the stargates to generate the paths (including random gates in there) then it checks if the generated paths works with the restraints you gave it (the path thing earlier) if it fails it would start over with new randoms.
If no stargates will work with the restraints then you would generate a error due to the restraints not being valid for this node/stargate system but that is the restraint maker fault.

[Ttech]

I don't understand this a bit.

[Periculi]

I don't understand this a bit.

If silence is golden, perhaps the unwritten comment is similarly valuable.

Betelgeuse, if you want to be the brains and code writer for the core of this, I would try to assist you if you wanted- but I really don't understand how you are going to create it with the way things run now.