Why you purchase Unidentified Objects

[Aeonic]

I don't know about you, but if I went to a store, I'd expect to store to know what exactly they're trying to sell me so that I can get more information about it. Why exactly is it that some of the stores in Transcendence try to sell you unidentified items? I mean, you can find a wrecked ship that has a weapon on board and you instantly know what that weapon is and all of its stats, but if you go to a shop that sells autons, they're all totally unidentified and you'd have no clue what you're buying.

For me, this rules a lot of these things out of the game for the most part since I'm not going to waste my money buying things that MIGHT be what I want. Wouldn't items sold in stores be identified while items found in wreckage would be unknown?

[digdug]

some autons are quite easy to recognize by the mass.
In any case, I do believe that some shops shouldn't sell unidentified items, why others should.

[Bobby]

you should at least be able to ask what something is and have them tell you, maybe put a cap on the number of id's per station before the attendant gets annoyed and starts refusing.

what really gets me is when they charge more than something is worth because its unknown, the inertialess drive is valued at 35,000, but adventurer outfitters charge 115,000.

[Prophet]

i think that veteran players have an advantage that they can identify unknown objects based on weight, price, image, etc. or at the very least have an idea what it is.

if there's an unknown device in eridani, 50-50 it's a laser collimater, if there's a unknown alien drive, it's an inertialess....

I think the unknown item system could stand for some adjustments.
-CW and corporate stations should have all their inventory identified.
-BM, ringers and teratons should still sell unknown maybe some of the smaller CW stations too.
loot should be stay unknown
-There should be a way to pay to have an item identified without having to get it installed.
-if this were the case, there could be penalties for installing unknown device.

[F50]

i think that veteran players have an advantage that they can identify unknown objects based on weight, price, image, etc. or at the very least have an idea what it is.

if there's an unknown device in eridani, 50-50 it's a laser collimater, if there's a unknown alien drive, it's an inertialess....

True. This is not so juch a problem with unknown devices (ie. not weapons, shields, or drives), as now there is enough of those that you can be confused (at least mid-game). I think Eridani is an outlier in this case, there is only so much level I equipment anyways. Shields, weapons and drives are more of a problem. Perhaps unkown alien equipment should all show up as a device, like the jumpdrive?

I think the unknown item system could stand for some adjustments.
-CW and corporate stations should have all their inventory identified.
-BM, ringers and teratons should still sell unknown maybe some of the smaller CW stations too.
loot should be stay unknown
-There should be a way to pay to have an item identified without having to get it installed.
-if this were the case, there could be penalties for installing unknown device.

That would wreak the unknown item system IMO. Consider that your major source of roms is either CW or corporate. Barrels come from corporate or CW.

And why does there need to be a way to pay for idenification? if you can't figure it out by installing it, then you need to do some more exploring to see what it is (if you care), which is, IMO, a good thing.

[Aeonic]

That would wreak the unknown item system IMO. Consider that your major source of roms is either CW or corporate. Barrels come from corporate or CW.

Would you ever go to a computer store and buy "unknown electronics" that may or may not help your computer? Who in their right mind would EVER buy electronics or chemicals without knowing exactly what they are first? Save the thrill and danger of discovery by testing unknown things on your ship for loot that you find in a wreckage. If I'm going to pay for it, I want to know what it is!

And why does there need to be a way to pay for idenification? if you can't figure it out by installing it, then you need to do some more exploring to see what it is (if you care), which is, IMO, a good thing.

For some things, it might be fun to "explore" and see what they are, such as the alien devices which stay unidentified when installed (don't know if that's a bug or not). If you don't know what it is, you just have to install and and wait to see what it does. But for other things - going to a docking area, installing a piece of scrap armor so you can test a bunch of barrels on it, then putting your good armor back on, is a pain in the butt and seems impractical. I'd rather go somewhere and pay to find out what they are so I'm not wasting my time or armor.

[Atarlost]

F50, I want you to imagine you walk into a car dealer. They refuse to tell you what options each vehicle has or what kind of powertrain or even if they take Gasoline or Diesel. The refuse to tell you which are used and which are new. They refuse to even tell you the model names.

Are you going to buy a car from that dealer?

Or imagine walking into a grocery store where nothing's labeled. You ask a clerk if a jug contains bleach, detergent, vinegar, water, or milk. He won't tell you.

Are you going to ever set foor in that store again?

Maybe you'd accept that from a pawnshop or a flea market, but they'd charge pawnshop or flea market prices. The only way it makes sense to buy something unidentified is if it's dirt cheap.

[F50]

Imagine walking into a huge automated wall-mart. There is no human in sight. Instead of a cashier, you have a self-serve till flanked by security bots (don't want to have anyone steal anything). Because you are new to space-travel, the symbol for "ablative coating" (HuCo stands for the name of the chemical compound, but you don't know that) is unknown to you. There is no one to ask, and everyone assumes you know what you are buying. So, you buy some light titanium armor, coat it with the coating, and then shoot it with various kinds of low-powered weapons to figure out what it does.

The same thing for unidentified devices (electronics). You are talking to machines who don't care for you questions. The people who do work there may not be particularly willing to answer the questions of a 'newbie' pilgrim.

There is no place you can go to find that kind of stuff out, except perhaps from other people that you meet but your character is one of those weird pilgrims going to the core. You just don't get to meet too many people, at least not the kind who'd coach you in armor pastes.


For alien tech its quite possible that no one really knows what it is. If most alien devices have similar inputs (trigger, power, etc.), then people can know how to install it without knowing what they are installing.


So yes, the item could very well be quite expensive. You are assuming that futuristic shops for adventurers, freighters, and military personnel are exactly the same as shops are today.

[Sponge]

I find the unidentified item system to be arduous and frustrating. I understand that Transc is a roguelike, and that unidentified items are a staple of the genre, but as it stands I don't feel that it makes the game more fun in any way, shape, or form. I can see unidentified stuff in loot, but having to pay for something to figure out what it is requires you to risk what may be a sizable amount of money. Again, I know it's all about risks, but some risks are fun and others just lead to boring gameplay. Monetary risks that will quite likely not end up in your favor require neither skill nor foresight. If you have cash, you take a risk. If you don't, you might miss out.

A big part of the problem (and I mean a really big part of the problem) is that most items out there are not useful in the majority of situations. It's a balance thing. If every unidentified item had a good chance of being something neat/useful, you'd still be taking a risk, but it would seldom lead to disappointment. Even if you didn't get what you want, you got something worthwhile. Obviously not everything can be game-breakingly good, but there are weapons and armor and shields that I wouldn't install if they were handed to me for free. Fix that and a lot of other balance-related issues will fall into place.

[digdug]

well, consumables are good unidentified. (roms, barrels...)

The point is: are autons consumables ?

[Atarlost]

But back to the grocer example. Would you buy something if nobody was willing to tell you whether it was apple cider, motor oil, or bleach? If you want consumables to be mysterious you should take them out of stores not make the stores have unthinkably terrible customer service.

[SparcMan]

What if we had something similar to the Trading post only instead it's a research station that will take one of your items temporarily to identify it. Different items have different identify times (higher level = more time and cost). No new graphics needed I think. just use the Tinker station or something.

[digdug]

But back to the grocer example. Would you buy something if nobody was willing to tell you whether it was apple cider, motor oil, or bleach? If you want consumables to be mysterious you should take them out of stores not make the stores have unthinkably terrible customer service.

True, my idea applies for random loot.
Stores should have always identified items, when you buy one item, then you can identify it in loots too.

[Sponge]

well, consumables are good unidentified. (roms, barrels...)

The point is: are autons consumables ?

Sort of, yes. I like the idea of them being unidentified, but the implementation is occasionally tiresome. ROMs are fine-- it's the barrels that need some love. In order to use a barrel without taking an unnecessary risk, you have to go to a station, uninstall a piece of armor, install another one, use the paste, uninstall the plate, and reinstall the old one. If I've got five different barrels, that's incredibly tedious. There's got to be some way of maintaining risk v. reward while eliminating some of the busywork.

[F50]

Untrue, you just need one titanium segment to test any number of barrels. Often only the first one will have effect, but if you don't care about the armor enhancement exploit, then just use one and save yourself the trouble. Most barrels (at least from armor dealers) are safe to apply over current enhancements, as long as your armor can take some organic material damage

The cost of identifying a barrel is less than the price of the barrel itself (though one barrel will inevitably become used up in the proces). Actually, the cost can even be negative if you buy a nice armor to apply it to instead of titanium.



@Atarlost: If futuristic shops are like shops today, then yes, its not thematic. However, also consider the fun of roms and barrels (at least, I find it fun). What about balance issues? What about shield crystals, alien devices (tailkon is corporate), and potentially the newer enhancement devices as well? Will we ever see a damaged ion crystal again? How much easier is it to find an ion reflect crystal if you don't have to aquire shield generators to test them out, potentially wasting the crystal in the process?