upgradable behemoths! :D (experiment)

[Arisaya]

Atarlost thinks that they are crappy nomatter what equipment you slap on them (aside from perhaps an iocrym cocoon), so I'm going to do some experimentation to see how they perform with shields and high-level omni weapons (ie, an IM90 or ares lightning turret)...

[Retroactive]

how about a Trenton field generator + Ion reflect and a Longreach, maybe a couple of Akan-600s?

[Atarlost]

That's silly. Holochroal already reflects ion. You want a Trenton with positron reflect.

[Song]

Hmm. If you want them "non-crappy"...try 5X Xenophobe Ion lancer, a Longreach or 3, A trenton with P-reflect, 2 fusionfires and a disintegrator.

That might work.

But on the serious side, Behemoths are pretty awful.....especially with that next-to-useless Dwarg Behemoth Cannon thing....the range is hopeless. I'll also be interested to see if it's possible for them to become actually *dangerous*....

[Atarlost]

When I said hopeless I hadn't thought of putting omnis on them, so that may work. Their problem is a combination of of poor speed, poor maneuverability, and lousy fields of fire and an omni would help them a lot.

[Arisaya]

Even after I had specifically mentioned putting an IM90 or some other high-end omni on them?

[Aeonic]

You could also give them some kind of extremely devistating (but large, unwieldly, powerhogging so players won't use it) frontal weapon that leaves them in a position where, whiles not terrifying, you do have to give them some respect because if you ignore them they'll give you a sting to remember.

[Atarlost]

You could do that, but I think it would be better to make a weapon with reasonable power requirements but unreasonable slot requirements. That way people won't ask inconvenient questions about how the hypothetical reactor that powers it runs on xenotite fuel rods.

[Aeonic]

As long as the players don't use it, the end result is the same. Behemoths get a big nasty weapon that is only effective when they actually hit you with it, at which point it is very effective, and players don't ever use it.

[Song]

That sounds like a good idea, Atarlost.....perhaps a dual-shot thermo weapon, like what they have, only more nasty, and then doubled.....and then (if it aint nasty enough already) possibly firing in 2-3 shot bursts (Per gun. meaning a dual+ repeat)...making it like the CLAW, only WAY nastier.

And taking 4-6 slots to install......making it impossible to use on a Freighter, and impractical on just about any other ship I have seen (including most Mod ships)...

[Aeonic]

There's also no reason to limit it to being doubled. It could just as easily be tripled or quadrupled. It could be the Behemoth four-shot cannon that takes four weapon slots to install. If you made them fire in a narrow arc, it would be a bit easier for it to hit things.

[Atarlost]

I'd prefer something actually somewhat balanced. Two slots would be a sacrifice even on the Wolfen, and a doubled up behemoth cannon wouldn't be competitave for the player at two slots if it weren't artificially inflated by the Behemoth's firerateadj.

There is a reason to limit it to being doubled. Count the big guns at the front Behemoth. I count two. Repeating is possible if more is needed, but just upping the damage per shot may be better for aesthetic reasons. As long as the range and firerate don't change the best it's going to get is soomething that will tempt a player who hasn't tried it before until they realize it's too short ranged to rerplace a howitzer and too slow firing to skirmish with since it doesn't work with the high speed loader. Even at one slot a doubled Behemoth cannon would be a dubious weapon, and at two slots a doubled Behemoth cannon isn't even worth considering.

Remember, even on the Wolfen you don't have slots to waste. One of your universal slots goes to your reactor. One goes to a shield. The other two are going to go to enhancers in 1.0. That leaves four weapon only slots. One is going to go to a launcher. One is going to go to a long range basebuster. One of the remaining two must go to a skirmish weapon. If the Behemoth is two slots and neither a good skirmish weapon nor a howitzer substitute it's only viable on a Wolfen that uses either a Katana for basebusting or a howitzer with speedloader for skirmishing, and does not have any other desired weapons (like an omni or a mining torch)

The new Behemoth cannon would be firerate 40 and fire two shots a little narrower than a dual config and use two slots. That would make it 8% less damaging than a Mark V before the high speed loader is taken into account, same as it is right now. The Behemoth would drop its firerateadj to 10, doubling the effect of its Xiphon cannons to keep the firerate of the behemoth cannon the same. This would approximately double the firepower on the Behemoth while the change in firerateadj allows the behemoth cannon to be kept nicheless.

[Arisaya]

... looks up and sees completely different discussion.
*blinks*
*slaps an IM90 and a kaidun on each of his behemoth followers*
*runs off to blow up stuff!*

[Retroactive]

I honestly don't see a huge problem with behemoths right now; they are very strong against Sung, which is presumably their designed purpose, and are also very effective against Ventari and early Ares. They also mount an (admittedly lousy) thermo weapon earlier than anybody else. I think you could probably add an ICX or Longreach, beef up the main gun slightly, and call it a day. Different enemies in game can be expected to have different strengths and weaknesses; thematically, it makes sense that all dwarg/zoanthropes are vulnerable to blast and thermo weapons.

[Arisaya]

This thread wasn't about making the behemoths as used by the dwarg optimized, but about making them upgradable by the player once the player obtains them.