Should <AutoDefenseDevice> be limited to one per ship?

[PM]

Much like <CargoHoldDevice> and others.

The problem with ICX devices that target ships is after multiple such devices are installed, they all activate and stack their attacks toward a single target. Four ICX-like devices that concentrate their firepower toward a single target can be more powerful than any one conventional weapon. If limited to one (or two), then designing ICX-like weapons will be easier, and force decisions whether the player wants to install a device that targets missiles only or some other class of target.

[Song]

I think it would make sense, certainly. I've done the "use 5 of them at once" trick before for laughs and it can be quite impressive.

[TVR]

I can't think of a good reason to have ICX-type devices for attacking ships or stations in the first place. No matter what the stats or limitations, in the end, their sole purpose is to increase the damage output at the expense of being AI-controlled.

Although the PDmod allows ICX-type devices to target enemy ships and stations, the weapons used are all variations of laser and kinetic, so they are ineffective against similarly leveled enemies when compared to their efficiency at anti-missile defense.

[PM]

I can't think of a good reason to have ICX-type devices for attacking ships or stations in the first place.

Those who believe the best defense is an overwhelming offense (i.e., kill the enemy before he can even act). Also, devices that do not discriminate between missile and ship. After all, a ship could be a really big missile that may or may not fire little missiles, or a missile can be a little (or big) ship that tries to ram itself into its target. Even part I itself has enemy superfreighters loaded with fuel act as suicide bombers.

Now that it is possible for ICX devices to use weapon slots thanks to deviceSlotCategory="weapon", some modders (like me) want to add weapons or weapon/missile defense combos that fire automatically anytime a hostile, whether ship or missile, comes into range. One possible mod would be to let the player convert all standard omnidirectional weapons into ICX-type weapons and vice versa at will.

For my mod Items912, one item I wanted to add is a variant of the point defense laser from Star Control 2, which zaps everything within very short range. (My version zaps one target continously.) I just disabled them because stacking four of them cause more damage than any single weapon of comparable level. One was fine, but several at once were overpowered.

In the standard game, only the ICX laser and Longreach are available. Both are useless against beams (they do not even activate), and the ICX laser is unreliable against anything that was not fired from a slam or tritium cannon unless you stack two or three of them. At which point, it is better to use Longreach instead for the likes of hardened missiles, pteravores, and quantumspheres.

[Vachtra]

Sounds like it isn't needed unless you're using mods since the current ICX devices only target missiles. In that case it sounds more like a mod issue of balance. If it really is that strong then it either needs to cost more, be more rare, or the damage decreased.
It there is a stacking issue I would suggest the last one. It'e easy enough to get money if you try usually.

[FourFire]

I agree with Vachtra; let modders take care of mod balance issues, you shouldn't need to code the game around fanmade mods.

[TVR]

I can't think of a good reason to have ICX-type devices for attacking ships or stations in the first place.

Those who believe the best defense is an overwhelming offense (i.e., kill the enemy before he can even act). ...

When I mentioned that I couldn't think of a good reason for offensive ICX-type devices, I meant there is no point to have something limited by automatic fire control when they could just be linked to the primary weapon or separate virtual "fire-mode" weapon.

If one considers linked weapons to be overpowered, trying to cripple them by forcing AI control is not the way to do it. However, AI is very useful when used in anti-missile ICX-type devices - the AI fire control actually makes them more responsive at target acquisition and allocation than if they had to be manually activated, like the anti-missile turrets in the older versions of PDmod.

... one item I wanted to add is a variant of the point defense laser from Star Control 2, which zaps everything within very short range. (My version zaps one target continously.) I just disabled them because stacking four of them cause more damage than any single weapon of comparable level. One was fine, but several at once were overpowered. ...

The weapon used in an ICX-type device should not be compared to a standard omni-directional turret. Logically, an ICX-type device would have to be much more advanced/bulky to accommodate an independently turreted weapon in a non-weapon slot. I recommend adjusting the tech level or number of device slots required.

[RPC]

No. Maybe there might be a tag on a player ship to limit the amount of utility items on a ship and set the ICX, patcher arm (or whichever patcher requires a slot), quantum CPU, Jumpdrive, etc as utility items and force the player to make choices that way.
AutoDefenseDevices are actually very unused in the base game, and are already crappy as they are.

If you're concerned about mod ICX devices just make a script to uninstall them if there's too much or something.

[Atarlost]

Limiting the number of autodefensedevices anywhere but the install script itself would limit what can be used on NPCs. The install validation script should probably have a hook for custom logic.

[sun1404]

Just raise the power use of the ICX devices. They're very efficient as it is. If one uses around 30 MW, I don't think having more than 2 would be wise.