We were discussing on irc about NPC ships buying things and equipping them.
This applies to enemies if they are friendly with a vendor (and if they're not, maybe they should be, or have their own. or not. ). This would probably require ships to have a mind to other things than kill the player.
Initially it came up as a solution to a flood of items that would be produced if there were a full-fledged economy (stations making goods from raw materials), so on it's own I don't know how it may work, but it's a neat idea.
Now ideally, this would be that full-fledged economy, but I hear rumblings that that won't work as great as I envision it. At the very least stations would have to replenish their goods, or something.
Anyhow: discuss.
Non-Player Ships buy things
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Blinzler
- Commonwealth Pilot
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:28 pm
- Location: yah man, where di sun is shining
So - let me see if I get this straight:
You envision a player-independent economy that mines resources, transports them to various fabrication stations, produces items (e.g. armor, weapons, ammunition) and then ships dock, buy & equip items?
Well, basically that sounds fantastic in theory, making a quite unique gameplay every time you play I guess...
But (you knew it was coming, didn't ya?
):
a) Seeing how we have a vast variety of factions in varying degrees of friendlyness or hostily - that would requite quite a couple of independent econmy systems.
b) Seeing how stations are (mostly) randomly placed, how is this going to work for player-independent trading that requires traveling through one or more jumpgates? Didn't I read somewhere that only the system the player is in atm is "active" and that systems not-yet visited by the player are not set yet?
c) Given that such an economy would actually work: What happens to ships who don't have a friendly equipment station in their system?
d) Could these ships theoretically equip whatever they want?
That's just a few things that come to my mind. All in all it sounds like a major re-coding.
But I admit that I'd very much would like "more economy" with at least replenishing stocks of items.
[Yes, Goat, you can easily mod that, I know.
]
You envision a player-independent economy that mines resources, transports them to various fabrication stations, produces items (e.g. armor, weapons, ammunition) and then ships dock, buy & equip items?
Well, basically that sounds fantastic in theory, making a quite unique gameplay every time you play I guess...
But (you knew it was coming, didn't ya?
):a) Seeing how we have a vast variety of factions in varying degrees of friendlyness or hostily - that would requite quite a couple of independent econmy systems.
b) Seeing how stations are (mostly) randomly placed, how is this going to work for player-independent trading that requires traveling through one or more jumpgates? Didn't I read somewhere that only the system the player is in atm is "active" and that systems not-yet visited by the player are not set yet?
c) Given that such an economy would actually work: What happens to ships who don't have a friendly equipment station in their system?
d) Could these ships theoretically equip whatever they want?
That's just a few things that come to my mind. All in all it sounds like a major re-coding.
But I admit that I'd very much would like "more economy" with at least replenishing stocks of items.
[Yes, Goat, you can easily mod that, I know.
]-
dvlenk6
- Militia Captain
- Posts: 519
- Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:56 am
- Location: Sanctuary and beyond
- Contact:
Trading too.
Convoys could buy/sell to help move items around a system. When they have made some profit? (if there is profit to be made), they could upgrade their freighter and escorts.
I don't have any idea how to implement that.
Recently have been playing with Molotok convoys (2 to 5 molotoks and a smuggler) doing the 'trade route' thing. They can alter the strategic nature of a system, expecially early on. i.e. take out a lot of enemy bases and ships.
You also have to be very careful aiming when they are around. There is a big difference between 3 attacking Zulus and 3 attacking Molotoks if you happen to hit one with stray fire.
Anyway, the point is, it would be cool to have the trading routes actually move items around the systems. It would also add some diversity to the looting, if you are pirating the traders. I mean the T31 Transport/Zulu convoys. Pirating would be more difficult if the Zulu escorts had...Slam Cannons and shields, or some other type of equiptment. That would make it more risky, not knowing what they might have equipped.
As for upgrading ships, that would be great, because you wouldn't be able to look (target) ships and basically know exactly what you would be going up against. Corsairs with particle beams would be a nasty surprise, or windslavers with shields.
Convoys could buy/sell to help move items around a system. When they have made some profit? (if there is profit to be made), they could upgrade their freighter and escorts.
I don't have any idea how to implement that.
Recently have been playing with Molotok convoys (2 to 5 molotoks and a smuggler) doing the 'trade route' thing. They can alter the strategic nature of a system, expecially early on. i.e. take out a lot of enemy bases and ships.
You also have to be very careful aiming when they are around. There is a big difference between 3 attacking Zulus and 3 attacking Molotoks if you happen to hit one with stray fire.
Anyway, the point is, it would be cool to have the trading routes actually move items around the systems. It would also add some diversity to the looting, if you are pirating the traders. I mean the T31 Transport/Zulu convoys. Pirating would be more difficult if the Zulu escorts had...Slam Cannons and shields, or some other type of equiptment. That would make it more risky, not knowing what they might have equipped.
As for upgrading ships, that would be great, because you wouldn't be able to look (target) ships and basically know exactly what you would be going up against. Corsairs with particle beams would be a nasty surprise, or windslavers with shields.
Well, here's the ideal economy for reference. It's not possible per se with the current way systems are handled, but it was the base of this idea.
Goods are manufactured (from nothing) at base raw materials stations. These are mines, farms, etc.
They are put up for sale there and private traders, off-duty commonwealth pilots, the player, pirates or whoever is insystem and on good terms with the station buys it. The station gets credits, they get the stuff.
The buyers take it somewhere. If the buyer was a pirate (probably actually a pirate sympathizer, like the smuggler convoys, it shows as green), they take it to a stronghold where it is converted to weapons or finished products and
a. sold to blakc market
b. used to equip the fleet ships
A freighter would sell it to a corp station where it would be converted to that corp's products.
Ships that are insystem will buy the products and either equip them or sell them for profit somewhere.
At anypoint in the line, pirates/enemy factions could potentially destroy and loot the transport, creating an extra link in the chain (or breaking it if they take it back to their base)
There needs to be ways to take product out of the market completely, otherwise the player would eventually be completely submerged with archcannons. I see conflict between factions insystem as one of these "item sinks". Say, pirates and militia buy up loads of weapons, and then fight (here is where the dynamic AI comes into play). They destroy ech other, reducing most of the goods to junk.
Another way is to periodically send stuff from stores out of system (and out of the game) on corp cruisers or equivalent.
This has some big repercussions on gameplay though. Now seiges are possible and you can try and corner markets (buy/steal everything of one type of product, wait for prices to rise through he roof beacuse of demand, and PROFIT!). There's lots of balancing, and lots of work, and I don't know if it would work (I mean technically, not gameplay wise, that's the kind of game play I want) with Transcendence
.
b)Probably it would be restricted to in-system only. Read Burzmali's thread ("State of the Universe" in Shipyards) about a possible way to have this streatch across systems.
c)If it's in system only, and the structure doesn't appear, then I guess it doesn't happen.
d)yeah, but most of the powerful weapons are not made by friendlies (both archcannons, alien weapons). The cool thing about it is that if you have everything try and loot stuff as well, then when a Luminous hive stumbles upon a dreadnaught, it takes it out, and then takes the kiloton back to base and equips it on one of it's ships....
Goods are manufactured (from nothing) at base raw materials stations. These are mines, farms, etc.
They are put up for sale there and private traders, off-duty commonwealth pilots, the player, pirates or whoever is insystem and on good terms with the station buys it. The station gets credits, they get the stuff.
The buyers take it somewhere. If the buyer was a pirate (probably actually a pirate sympathizer, like the smuggler convoys, it shows as green), they take it to a stronghold where it is converted to weapons or finished products and
a. sold to blakc market
b. used to equip the fleet ships
A freighter would sell it to a corp station where it would be converted to that corp's products.
Ships that are insystem will buy the products and either equip them or sell them for profit somewhere.
At anypoint in the line, pirates/enemy factions could potentially destroy and loot the transport, creating an extra link in the chain (or breaking it if they take it back to their base)
There needs to be ways to take product out of the market completely, otherwise the player would eventually be completely submerged with archcannons. I see conflict between factions insystem as one of these "item sinks". Say, pirates and militia buy up loads of weapons, and then fight (here is where the dynamic AI comes into play). They destroy ech other, reducing most of the goods to junk.
Another way is to periodically send stuff from stores out of system (and out of the game) on corp cruisers or equivalent.
This has some big repercussions on gameplay though. Now seiges are possible and you can try and corner markets (buy/steal everything of one type of product, wait for prices to rise through he roof beacuse of demand, and PROFIT!). There's lots of balancing, and lots of work, and I don't know if it would work (I mean technically, not gameplay wise, that's the kind of game play I want) with Transcendence
.a) I think Communes, pirate strongholds, slaver fortresses and the like can serve as manufacturing and distribution centers. The enemy's economy is basically only there for the player and friendly NPCs to disrupt anyway, it can be simple. If the structure for it exists in a system, go for it. If not, ignore.a) Seeing how we have a vast variety of factions in varying degrees of friendlyness or hostily - that would requite quite a couple of independent econmy systems.
b) Seeing how stations are (mostly) randomly placed, how is this going to work for player-independent trading that requires traveling through one or more jumpgates? Didn't I read somewhere that only the system the player is in atm is "active" and that systems not-yet visited by the player are not set yet?
c) Given that such an economy would actually work: What happens to ships who don't have a friendly equipment station in their system?
d) Could these ships theoretically equip whatever they want?
b)Probably it would be restricted to in-system only. Read Burzmali's thread ("State of the Universe" in Shipyards) about a possible way to have this streatch across systems.
c)If it's in system only, and the structure doesn't appear, then I guess it doesn't happen.
d)yeah, but most of the powerful weapons are not made by friendlies (both archcannons, alien weapons). The cool thing about it is that if you have everything try and loot stuff as well, then when a Luminous hive stumbles upon a dreadnaught, it takes it out, and then takes the kiloton back to base and equips it on one of it's ships....