Buffing the Iocrym

[TheLoneWolf]

Guys read this fanfic too.
http://z8.invisionfree.com/Transcendenc ... topic=1730

So hey mate-who-wrote-this-thing if you read this pm me.

[JohnBWatson]

While the Iocrym could theoretically be a test of strength, I don't see the logic of a hyperintellligence deploying a test that's orders of magnitude less dangerous than what the player has encountered already. In addition, as Iocrym sentinels were deployed inside of the system at their outposts, it makes sense that they ought to be capable of:

a) Fending off assaults on the outposts to prevent the loss of a major asset in maintaining the quarantine

and

b) Doing so without casualties in order to prevent easy human acquisition of advanced Iocrym technology.

Therefore, Iocrym sentinels should be highly survivable and capable of successfully defeating advanced independant gunships and small raids by minor factions, in addition to the role they currently excel at, which is leveling the scientific stations in the system in the event of an attempt to disable the Anomaly. A full scale offensive by a major faction against all targets reachable without disabling the Anomaly would likely be successful, which is what the Anomaly is intended to deal with, delaying further human advances so that the Iocrym can prepare their own large - scale force to deal with the attempted breach.

Plus, from a gameplay perspective, enemies that present no threat to the player aren't that fun to kill, and the boss of a roguelike should present a very real level of challenge, especially to people speedrunning the game.

[TheLoneWolf]

And they are slow. I fear ventari more than an Iocrym Sentinel. Seriously we need an extension! Those who want to get the iocrym to be more difficult will download an extension which gives them an overhaul. Maybe name it Test of the Pilgrim? Or The Last Test?

[Atarlost]

Let's see what sort of tools we have.

We have disintegration.
We have knockback.
We have hitscan now.
We can do tractor beams, either the simple attractors Wolfy uses on the Domain Nodeship or something more complicated that reduces the target's velocity or relative velocity.
We can do hard coded seekers.
We can manipulate shots as long as they're rendered nondirectionally. We can manipulate those too, but I don't remember ever getting the ability to rotate them so they'd look bad. I have a bunch of canned shot manipulation routines, which could be adapted.
We can apply overlays.
We have gravity wells.

We're probably unfortunately stuck with the current Iocrym models. I really wish we weren't because there are some really cool tricks with tractors on a directional ship and the current ICS model is absolutely wrong for such things.

[PM]

We can manipulate shots as long as they're rendered nondirectionally. We can manipulate those too, but I don't remember ever getting the ability to rotate them so they'd look bad. I have a bunch of canned shot manipulation routines, which could be adapted.

This was added recently; I do not remember exactly when, but it was definitely available in 1.5+. Missiles use the 'rotation field (I think), just like ships. I use this feature with some of my weapons (namely spiral mode on one of my launchers).

EDIT: It even affects missile trails. If the missile is nondirectional, yet it leaves a trail (e.g., MAG), it still needs its angle updated so that the smoke trail jets at the proper angle.

[sun1404]

The ICS could perhaps use a strong gravity field or tractor beam that is activated occasionally, pulling the player into the Avalanche's range. That would make the Jump Drive much more useful in the boss fight.

Hitscan is also interesting, though I'm not sure what exactly the weapon is supposed to be. Maybe the ICS can deploy a few drones that uses low damage, continuous hitscan beam, which the player needs to quickly destroy or face inevitable DoT.

[Atarlost]

Forget the Avalanche exists. We're better off designing from scratch with no preconceived notions except the ship models we're stuck with.

A fixed directional weapon does not belong on a nondirectional model like the current ICS. Its predecessor made sense on the old ICS, but the current ICS calls for lots of similar weapons all around like the Xenophobe Arc. The Avalanche wouldn't look right as a turret. The Fracture could look okay and a half Fracture could look pretty good, but the Avalanche is too wide to look good from a turret.

[JohnBWatson]

Forget the Avalanche exists. We're better off designing from scratch with no preconceived notions except the ship models we're stuck with.

A fixed directional weapon does not belong on a nondirectional model like the current ICS. Its predecessor made sense on the old ICS, but the current ICS calls for lots of similar weapons all around like the Xenophobe Arc. The Avalanche wouldn't look right as a turret. The Fracture could look okay and a half Fracture could look pretty good, but the Avalanche is too wide to look good from a turret.

I'd say multiple smaller IFCs for short range defensive coverage sounds reasonable. I'd keep wary of making it fight too much like the Xeno ark, given that the player may have just faced it a few minutes ago. I like the idea of maintaining uniqueness, and the gravity fields idea sounds excellent for that. With that in mind, how does this loadout sound:

Weaponry

1 short range weapon consisting of 3 slightly damage-per-particle and range buffed but 50% narrower IFC shots set up like the IM90. When firing on a single target, their spread would be set up so that they do not appear to be 3 entirely separate beams.

The standard Qsphere weapon, with slightly enhanced speed, greatly enhanced shot - HP, a longer lifespan and better damage, along with a virtual device that regenerates its ammo over time. (Possibly solve the disintegrate issue with a 1 time only saving throw from Domina upon taking an armor hit without disintegrate immunity, similar to what happens with the Black Death Pods in EP?)

The trail effect of the above weapon should be suitably epic - looking to ensure that the player knows he will be in a very bad situation should he take a hit from it.

A very slow(less than APA) firing, medium - low damage howitzer - weapon that fires projectiles which explode upon running out of lifespan or hitting a target, creating a blast radius effect and generating a reasonably powerful temporary gravity field. Omnidirectionally mounted.

Carrier capabilities

Whenever its shields are down, checks the number of Iocrym sentinels every so often and spawns enough to bring that number up to 3. Iocrym sentinels should field a long range, non - damaging, swivel mounted 'tractor beam' weapon along with their current loadout. They should also have virtual repair devices, though nothing too powerful. Upon death, Iocrym sentinels should try to self - destruct, though they shouldn't always succeed.

AI

Move towards the player constantly, firing all weapons whenever the player is in their range, and retreat when shields are down(under cover of the Sentinels, hopefully). Basically, just use the 'advanced' AI setting.

---

I believe that this setup would create an ICS that is beatable, but leaves the player feeling truly accomplished when they deal that final blow, and comes across as suitably alien when the player encounters it.

[Atarlost]

Forget the Avalanche exists. We're better off designing from scratch with no preconceived notions except the ship models we're stuck with.

A fixed directional weapon does not belong on a nondirectional model like the current ICS. Its predecessor made sense on the old ICS, but the current ICS calls for lots of similar weapons all around like the Xenophobe Arc. The Avalanche wouldn't look right as a turret. The Fracture could look okay and a half Fracture could look pretty good, but the Avalanche is too wide to look good from a turret.

I'd say multiple smaller IFCs for short range defensive coverage sounds reasonable. I'd keep wary of making it fight too much like the Xeno ark, given that the player may have just faced it a few minutes ago. I like the idea of maintaining uniqueness, and the gravity fields idea sounds excellent for that.

I don't mean it should fight like the Xeno ark, I mean it should have a nondirectional weapon layout like the Xeno ark.

With that in mind, how does this loadout sound:

Weaponry

1 short range weapon consisting of 3 slightly damage-per-particle and range buffed but 50% narrower IFC shots set up like the IM90. When firing on a single target, their spread would be set up so that they do not appear to be 3 entirely separate beams.

The standard Qsphere weapon, with slightly enhanced speed, greatly enhanced shot - HP, a longer lifespan and better damage, along with a virtual device that regenerates its ammo over time. (Possibly solve the disintegrate issue with a 1 time only saving throw from Domina upon taking an armor hit without disintegrate immunity, similar to what happens with the Black Death Pods in EP?)

The trail effect of the above weapon should be suitably epic - looking to ensure that the player knows he will be in a very bad situation should he take a hit from it.

A very slow(less than APA) firing, medium - low damage howitzer - weapon that fires projectiles which explode upon running out of lifespan or hitting a target, creating a blast radius effect and generating a reasonably powerful temporary gravity field. Omnidirectionally mounted.

Carrier capabilities

Whenever its shields are down, checks the number of Iocrym sentinels every so often and spawns enough to bring that number up to 3. Iocrym sentinels should field a long range, non - damaging, swivel mounted 'tractor beam' weapon along with their current loadout. They should also have virtual repair devices, though nothing too powerful. Upon death, Iocrym sentinels should try to self - destruct, though they shouldn't always succeed.

AI

Move towards the player constantly, firing all weapons whenever the player is in their range, and retreat when shields are down(under cover of the Sentinels). Basically, just use the 'advanced' AI setting.

---

I believe that this setup would create an ICS that is beatable, but leaves the player feeling truly accomplished when they deal that final blow, and comes across as suitably alien when the player encounters it.

I don't think the spread would look good. I'd go with six single firing point fracture cannon variants on the six pillars of the gazebo shape with probably a 180 degree arc each and 1/3 the damage of your proposed IM-90-like variant. That would give the same single target damage which is all that matters and look a lot better. Or put the disintegrator in the short range slot. Or not have a short range slot.

Nothing has been said to convince me that the quantumsphere is or within reason can be anything more than an annoying gotcha. Tradition isn't a good enough reason to keep a reference to Star Trek the Motionless Picture around when it's not helping gameplay.

I think the carrier deployment on shield drop thing may also be more annoying than challenging. I'd prefer a finite supply launched all at once. I also think they need to have their armament rethought as well. They're not fast enough to bring their guns to bear against other ships, but changing their speed might mess up the intercept difficulty of the anti-station strikes.

[Xephyr]

I'm going to break down how Heretic is handled real quick. From a game design standpoint, it's a well-designed system.

-You encounter the Sentinels first of all, who use a plasma weapon similar to that on the ICS. Through them, you can also get a peek at what light Iocrym armour is resistant to.

-If you're adventurous enough, you'll find the outposts, which use repellers, an ICS weapon.

-So on the ICS, the only new thing introduced is the Quantumsphere disintegrator. If the player ditched their armour for Iocrym armour, which they often will because it is pretty good armour all around, then they're already immune to disintegration.

The current structure is designed very fairly for the player. If there are changes made to it, then I would strongly suggest that the Iocrym are structured similarly.

[PM]

The only thing the Iocrym absolutely need is to counter planet-camping. Radius weapons hit everyone, even campers. Something that can move or teleport the player could be good. Inertialess might counter stuff like gravity or tractor-beams, meaning we might want a solution that is inertialess-proof.

[Atarlost]

I'm going to break down how Heretic is handled real quick. From a game design standpoint, it's a well-designed system.

-You encounter the Sentinels first of all, who use a plasma weapon similar to that on the ICS. Through them, you can also get a peek at what light Iocrym armour is resistant to.

-If you're adventurous enough, you'll find the outposts, which use repellers, an ICS weapon.

-So on the ICS, the only new thing introduced is the Quantumsphere disintegrator. If the player ditched their armour for Iocrym armour, which they often will because it is pretty good armour all around, then they're already immune to disintegration.

The current structure is designed very fairly for the player. If there are changes made to it, then I would strongly suggest that the Iocrym are structured similarly.

The macro design may be good, but all of those elements, while introduced well, are individually boring.

[JohnBWatson]

I don't mean it should fight like the Xeno ark, I mean it should have a nondirectional weapon layout like the Xeno ark.

Ah, my mistake.

I don't think the spread would look good. I'd go with six single firing point fracture cannon variants on the six pillars of the gazebo shape with probably a 180 degree arc each and 1/3 the damage of your proposed IM-90-like variant. That would give the same single target damage which is all that matters and look a lot better. Or put the disintegrator in the short range slot. Or not have a short range slot.

A short range, ammoless disintegrate weapon might be a bit overpowered for something that that can be obtained at the edge of Human space, where nothing's immune. I'm not certain about how the spread might look, but the idea of 6 turrets would work just as well.

Nothing has been said to convince me that the quantumsphere is or within reason can be anything more than an annoying gotcha. Tradition isn't a good enough reason to keep a reference to Star Trek the Motionless Picture around when it's not helping gameplay.

It's a tracking weapon that can deal heavy damage at range and moves slow enough that it can be avoided. If we don't have something like that, I don't see how we can get a ranged fight that's more exciting than simply tanking some other longranged weapon while hammering away with your own. The disintegrate property may be a bit much, though I'm confident that giving the player a 1 time immunity would be enough to nullify that.

I think the carrier deployment on shield drop thing may also be more annoying than challenging. I'd prefer a finite supply launched all at once. I also think they need to have their armament rethought as well. They're not fast enough to bring their guns to bear against other ships, but changing their speed might mess up the intercept difficulty of the anti-station strikes.

All at once deployment allows the player to just get them launched, run away, then wipe them out without the ICS's fire support. The game's present mechanic for deploying them is indeed quite annoying and not really challenging, but I think that if we replace "deploy 3 whenever shield drops, even if it just came back up" with "try to maintain 3 drones active by launching up to 3 every few minutes whenever shields are down", the 'cheapness' of the addition of drones becomes much less of a problem. At the very least, it'd feel like the ICS is playing by some logical constraints and make destroying the Sentinels in the ICS fight feel less pointless due to the fact that it'll take some time to restock them.

I did list a possible armament change for the Sentinels, what do you think of it?

---

The only thing the Iocrym absolutely need is to counter planet-camping. Radius weapons hit everyone, even campers. Something that can move or teleport the player could be good. Inertialess might counter stuff like gravity or tractor-beams, meaning we might want a solution that is inertialess-proof.

This is why I really think we should just go ahead and make planets and stars not collide with projectiles. It doesn't make any kind of logical sense, and it introduces a ton of exploits to gameplay. Asteroids, wrecks, and stations are perfectly fine as cover already.

However, for the current system, giving the Qsphere a blast radius and restocking its ammo would work well enough.

---

[TheLoneWolf]

I have a great idea! For a short range shield buster weapon. So it should easily solve the planet camper problem, while not making the ICS invincible. Say the ICS has some % of shields which is >50% or =50% and the player is nearby. So the ICS will eat 50% of its shields to emit a shockwave, not different to the one from those Pentient stations or the Ares Warheads and NAMI capital missiles. The ICS can have such two charges with max shields. The shockwave will do huge dps to shields and has a small chance of permanent device damage or temporary visual display fault. It wont harm the armour that much. And for this, we must do something of the repellers. Maybe use repellers only when shields are down. Right now its like Qsphere is the signature of the ICS, and the game wants it to be its favourite weapon, like it or not. So the repellers are pushing the player away to display the spectacular tech of tracking in the Qspheres. The Iocrym are no nutbrains. They must have the most distinct and unique AI in Stars of the Pilgrim!

[PM]

Shockwaves cannot hit objects sitting on a planet. They get absorbed by the planet like every other missile. Only radius effects like those from exploding XM900s work.