Weapon balance v2

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george moromisato
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I've made several adjustments to the weapon balance algorithm. You can look at the new table here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

This reflects the following changes:

1. The balance algorithm has an increased adjustments for damage type based on armor resistance. That means that weapons with obsolete damage types (e.g., x-ray laser cannon) can have more DPS and still be balanced.

2. I've increased the bonus for omni from +50 to +100.

3. I've modified the algorithm that accounts for passthrough so it is more accurate. For example, at 50% passthrough, the expected number of hits is 2 (whereas before the algorithm was expecting 3). The algorithm now thinks the Katana is a little more balanced.

4. I've fixed a bug in computing balance for fragments that track (e.g., TM7). Now it expects that 2/3rd of the fragments will hit (compared to 1/8th before).

5. The algorithm now considers passthrough for shockwave damage (e.g., Ares micronuke). This makes them less likely to be underpowered.

6. I've fixed a bug which ignored overheating weapons (e.g., advanced tritium cannon). The balance should be more accurate now.

Lastly, I've implemented the balance changes described here: https://ministry.kronosaur.com/record.hexm?id=30518 (see the Version History at the bottom for a list of recent changes).
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Weapon Balance 2: Balance Harder: The Revenge of the Penitent Cannon: The Return: Evolved: The Wrath of Nasser: ∴
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It looks....mostly reasonable to me.The chimeric graviton cannon is one of those guns that exists solely to hurt and annoy the player, and I'd love to see it reworked into something less annoying. The Dwarg cininnydewhatsit cannon is absolutely fine I think, the very low damage is offset by the EMP, the long range, the tracking, and the fact that it's always in the company of a swarm of Dwarg Xiphon cannons. I still think frag weapons (radius and shockwave) are a bit discounted by the algorithm. And finally......let us all donate heavily to the Campaign to Save the Iocrym Repeller today.

.....it's one of those guns that honestly probably isn't even needed anymore. The Iocrym rely on short-range guns, so having a short-range gun that knocks things *out* of the range of the big guns is.....less than ideal.
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george moromisato wrote:3. I've modified the algorithm that accounts for passthrough so it is more accurate. For example, at 50% passthrough, the expected number of hits is 2 (whereas before the algorithm was expecting 3). The algorithm now thinks the Katana is a little more balanced.
 Is this going to be adjusted in the game engine so that the assorted 'damage properties reflect the new algorithm?
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Shrike wrote: It looks....mostly reasonable to me.The chimeric graviton cannon is one of those guns that exists solely to hurt and annoy the player, and I'd love to see it reworked into something less annoying.
That's the major issue with high damagetype weapons. They hit the player like a truck, but aren't really that good against NPCs, which typically don't rely on resistance. Once resistance to level - appropriate damagetypes makes them worth using over their peers, much better weapons than them can be looted easily enough.
The Dwarg cininnydewhatsit cannon is absolutely fine I think, the very low damage is offset by the EMP, the long range, the tracking, and the fact that it's always in the company of a swarm of Dwarg Xiphon cannons.


The AI needs to be smarter with it(less firing at a passing ship without targeting it with a damage dealing weapon), but it's otherwise okay.
And finally......let us all donate heavily to the Campaign to Save the Iocrym Repeller today.
I was under the impression that we were just going to ignore it until the Iocrym battle is reworked and it ceases to exist.

On the data:

It appears that the Kiloton needs a major buff. I suggest better range and much better damage, to justify its heavy, expensive ammo.

If the GDC is going to be a quest weapon to recharge, it should probably get a damage buff. It's lower ranged than most bombardment weapons, so it definitely needs something there.

Finally, the algorithm should probably take firerate into account. Higher firerate makes a weapon a lot easier to fight with, harder to avoid, and makes misses count a lot less. While the howitzers are indeed overpowered, their dps feels close to fair. Spreading it out over a lower quantity of shots seems like it would work well.

Also, spotted an oversight. Mines should not be affected by BalRange, as they are mines.

Possible oversight: Weapons with strong tracking capabilities(IE smartcannon) are effectively omni, but do not receive the same balance adjustment.
Last edited by JohnBWatson on Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Wasn't the repeller added to prevent the player from sitting on the Iocrym Command Ship and killing without getting shot back? Avalanche cannon is on a swivel and set ahead of the ship, and the disintegrator can be... neutralized.

The repeller does the job it was designed to do (i.e., shove player away from ICS), but it is terrible weapon for the player to try to use. The repeller feels more appropriate as an auto-defense device (that targets ships instead of missiles).
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Looks mostly reasonable. WMD and shot speed still seem undervalued to me.

Do you have data about how many players use missiles and ammo weapons? I've been finding (some of) them quite worthwhile for several versions already and they keep getting stronger.

I'm looking forward to trying the new and improved advanced tritium cannon. Looks like 6 shots/sec sustained, almost as powerful as the thermo cannon but ammoless and with higher burst damage.

However:
Hecates cannon: damage="12d12 ..." powerUse="1200" [Previously 12d12+12 and power use 900]
Nooo! Now what are we supposed to put on our Lumiere battle autons? And why would the Ares be using a worse version of the Fusionfire?
george moromisato wrote:3. I've modified the algorithm that accounts for passthrough so it is more accurate. For example, at 50% passthrough, the expected number of hits is 2 (whereas before the algorithm was expecting 3). The algorithm now thinks the Katana is a little more balanced.
For practical purposes, there's a limit to how many hits a single shot can score even if it always passes through. It depends on the shot speed and target size, but I'd expect it to be about 2-4 for the Katana, so 1.75 hits might be more accurate.
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I agree with two hits for 50% passthrough. That is the expected value, and even small targets will take two hits total when a shot passes through.

It is when you get to higher passthrough values, such as 80 or 100 that target size and number of targets reduce number of hits less than expected value if missileSpeed is sufficiently fast. I tend to assume x3.5 to x4 for 80% and x5 for 100%, assuming missileSpeed is 100.
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Light speed is 48 pixels per tick though. How could it possibly score that many hits on a small target?
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They just do (i.e., hit twice) because that is what I see often when I experiment with passthrough weapons.
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Do they get absorbed and recreated at the same location if the passthrough succeeds? Then they could hit an arbitrary number of times as long as they keep passing through (approaching an average of 2 at 50%).

But if they keep moving between hits, I don't see how they could score more than 2 hits on a small ship, resulting in an average of 1.5 .
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It keeps moving and hits again the next tick. I think collision detection might make minor adjustments to hits (such as the first hit of a passthrough weapon), to explain why they do not always perfectly line up as expected. For example, various beams and similar effects distort themselves for a moment when they hit.
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JohnBWatson wrote:Possible oversight: Weapons with strong tracking capabilities(IE smartcannon) are effectively omni, but do not receive the same balance adjustment.
For the player, yes. For the AI, not quite because AI still does not shoot at target unless weapon points towards the target's general direction. For example, T31 does not fire SmartCannon unless target is directly in-front of it.

That is probably a separate ticket: AI should fire tracking weapons if shots are likely to hit, even if not facing target.
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PM wrote: For the player, yes. For the AI, not quite because AI still does not shoot at target unless weapon points towards the target's general direction. For example, T31 does not fire SmartCannon unless target is directly in-front of it.

That is probably a separate ticket: AI should fire tracking weapons if shots are likely to hit, even if not facing target.
Agreed. That's an AI failing, not really the fault of the weapon.
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PM wrote:
JohnBWatson wrote:Possible oversight: Weapons with strong tracking capabilities(IE smartcannon) are effectively omni, but do not receive the same balance adjustment.
For the player, yes. For the AI, not quite because AI still does not shoot at target unless weapon points towards the target's general direction. For example, T31 does not fire SmartCannon unless target is directly in-front of it.

That is probably a separate ticket: AI should fire tracking weapons if shots are likely to hit, even if not facing target.
When I set a playership launcher's firearc to omnidirectional, the launcher only fires behind the ship if I manually selected the target. Otherwise, the launcher will only fire in a narrow arc in front of the ship. If I set a normal weapon's firearc to omnidirectional, the weapon does fire at targets behind the playership even if the targets are not manually selected.

From what I've seen there, it may be a bug with the way omni works with launchers rather than the AI, or maybe it's a bug with both.
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gunship256 wrote: When I set a playership launcher's firearc to omnidirectional, the launcher only fires behind the ship if I manually selected the target. Otherwise, the launcher will only fire in a narrow arc in front of the ship. If I set a normal weapon's firearc to omnidirectional, the weapon does fire at targets behind the playership even if the targets are not manually selected.

From what I've seen there, it may be a bug with the way omni works with launchers rather than the AI, or maybe it's a bug with both.
Auto-targeting works up to range 30. Range appears to be too short for player with a big enough screen.
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