Engines - Acceleration, Turning Rate, Max Speed, Ship Mass

[Brzelius]

I realized that I have no idea how the above parameters work / are calculated.
I read that the freigther mass as defined in the XMLs is much higher than Wolfen or Shuttle and so his acceleration and turning rate (is it even variable?) get lower at a slower rate when increasing ship mass by taking up cargo.
How exactly are they influenced (encumbered) by increasing mass?
Does the mass of installed armor / weapons / devices also increase the ship mass and make it slower? Then installing lighter armor even for the freighter has its benefits.
Is the max speed influenced by ship mass, or only the acceleration?
How do the different engine upgrades influence acceleration, turning rate and max speed?

[digdug]

Is the max speed influenced by ship mass, or only the acceleration?

acceleration and turning speeds are affected by the mass, the max speed is unaffected.

Does the mass of installed armor / weapons / devices also increase the ship mass and make it slower? Then installing lighter armor even for the freighter has its benefits.

yes it makes ships slower. well, in my experience, because i load the freighter as a flying "santa barbara" (tons and tons of ammo) I don't really care about the weight of my armor layers.

How do the different engine upgrades influence acceleration, turning rate and max speed?

they influence thrust and max speed. Then thrust again influences acceleration.
Not sure for the turning speed.

[Brzelius]

Are acceleration and turning speed halfed when mass is doubled?
The freighter has a defined mass of 250 and shuttle and wolfen have 30 tons, right?
Is the starting equipment with armor segments included in this starting mass or is that the "empty" mass?
What are the "thrust factors" for the 3 starting engines and tritium propulsion upgrade, titan 440 fusion drive and pteracnium megadrive?

[Blitz]

I'd like to know how exactly the numbers work tho...
I've been trying to figure out how exactly the game calculates whether you are overloaded or not bu running some tests but I simply can't make sense of it. On a sapphire, sometimes 35 tons overloads it, and sometimes you can go a little over 40 without overluading it...

[Brzelius]

Another question: If you install a tritium propulsion upgrade on the Wolfen, does it get slower?

[Bobby]

no, the higher number wins.

Blitz: it sounds like when a ship is carrying more than it's own mass, armor included, it is overloaded.

[Brzelius]

no, the higher number wins.

So the max speed of the starting Wolfen engine overrides. But what about the thrust? What's the thrust number / factor for the engine devices?

About overload: What happens when a ship is overloaded?
Do installed weapons / shield / devices count as cargo or ship mass for the calculation?
If not, it is
if (ship_mass+armor_mass)/(installed_devices+cargo)<1; overloaded; not
?
So installing heavier armor can make a ship actually more maneuverable or better accelerating?

[Arisaya]

Everything on the ship counts, installed and uninstalled. Even virtual items.
I think it has to do with ~mass>thrust*1000 (because mass is actually in kg, and thrust is in metric tons)

[Brzelius]

This thread is strangely unsatisfying. I will summarize all open questions:
1. Is turning speed affected by engine upgrades?
2. What happens if a ship is overloaded?
3. What are the thrust numbers for the engine upgrades and the basic drives of the three ships?
4. Can installing heavier armor make a ship actually more maneuverable or better accelerating because it doesn't count as overloaded any more?
5. Are acceleration and turning speed halfed when mass is doubled? If not, what's the formula?
6. Is the starting equipment with armor segments included in this starting mass or is that the "empty" mass?

7. If any of these questions cannot be answered by looking at the XMLs, meaning it's hardcoded in the source, please tell me.

[Prophet]

1. Is turning speed affected by engine upgrades?

turning speed is affected by your thrust/mass ratio. If you're encumbered you turn slower. The reductions are hardcoded so only george really knows.

2. What happens if a ship is overloaded?

you turn slower and your acceleration is slower. again, not sure how the thrust/mass ratio affects this or to what degree

3. What are the thrust numbers for the engine upgrades and the basic drives of the three ships?

ship | thrust | mass | ratio
Wolfen | 300 | 30 | 10:1
Freighter | 200 | 250 | 4:5
Sapphire | 150 | 30 | 5:1

tritium upgrade - thrust 100
Titan upgrade - thrust 300
inertialess - thrust 350
pteracnium - 750

*note* a propulsion upgrade doesn't add to the base ship thrust (or speed) the game uses which ever is higher (base or upgrade)

4. Can installing heavier armor make a ship actually more maneuverable or better accelerating because it doesn't count as overloaded any more?

The difference in weight of armor is negligible, if you are encumbered drop some cargo and keep the heavier armor.

5. Are acceleration and turning speed halfed when mass is doubled? If not, what's the formula?

Only george knows the exact formula

6. Is the starting equipment with armor segments included in this starting mass or is that the "empty" mass?

the mass shown above for ships is the empty mass (just the hull) and the weight of all items and equipment is not included in those values.

7. If any of these questions cannot be answered by looking at the XMLs, meaning it's hardcoded in the source, please tell me.

ummm, yes?

Anyway, I hope that clears some things up for you.

[Brzelius]

Thanks a lot.
This seems kind of strange:

ship | thrust | mass | ratio
Wolfen | 300 | 30 | 10:1
Freighter | 200 | 250 | 4:5
Sapphire | 150 | 30 | 5:1

When starting the game, the ship selection screen states the thrust to mass ratio as 1.5, 6.6 and 13.1 respectively for the freighter / sapphire / wolfen. The shown numbers in game are wrong?

tritium upgrade - thrust 100
Titan upgrade - thrust 300
inertialess - thrust 350
pteracnium - 750

As the tritium upgrade allows 0.2c max speed, its only purpose is to boost the freighter's max speed by 0.02c, but it is completely useless for the sapphire and wolfen as it does increase neither max speed nor thrust a bit? Or are the stated values (max speed 0.18c / 0.2c / 0.25c) wrong also?

[Prophet]

When starting the game, the ship selection screen states the thrust to mass ratio as 1.5, 6.6 and 13.1 respectively for the freighter / sapphire / wolfen. The shown numbers in game are wrong?

I can't say how the numbers on the ship selection screen are calculated, the numbers I posted were taken directly from the xml.

As the tritium upgrade allows 0.2c max speed, its only purpose is to boost the freighter's max speed by 0.02c, but it is completely useless for the sapphire and wolfen as it does increase neither max speed nor thrust a bit? Or are the stated values (max speed 0.18c / 0.2c / 0.25c) wrong also?

Nope, that correct. The tritium upgrade only benefits the freighter and only by 0.02c.

[Atarlost]

Perhaps thrust should be additive. It doesn't seem to be though.

[Blitz]

Perhaps thrust should be additive. It doesn't seem to be though.

I remember there having been a pretty big discussion about this a very long time back....

[Brzelius]

Well, the numbers sure look like they're supposed to be additive to the base engines. What else would 100 thrust be good for?