Tithe....

[Wraithwynd]

I know that this will seem like nitpicking, but I think it is important for us to understand what a 'tithe' is in order for a player to understand what they are doing when they are 'tithing' at the Sisters.

Tithe, something in the game that the Sisters want or 'offer you to give', but not fully explained as to exactly what Tithing does, is and how much a 'worthy' tithe amount is expected.

Since I read tithe, I assumed that its 10% of my 'worth' thus if I have 1000 credits, I give 100 and the sisters are happy. Not so.

If I give a Tithe (1/10) it is a 'token contribution'. The sisters say something along the lines of 'Thank-you for your token contribution, may Domina open your heart to donate more.'

Even at the very start of the game, without looting, mining or having anything other than player stuff, a tithe of 10% is not happening with them.

How do I come to the conclusion that a tithe is 10%, by the very definition of the word "tithe":

tithe
(from Old English teogoþa "tenth")
n.
1.
a. A tenth part of one's annual income contributed voluntarily or due as a tax, especially for the support of the clergy or church.
b. The institution or obligation of paying tithes.
2. A tax or assessment of one tenth.
3.
a. A tenth part.
b. A very small part.
v. tithed, tith·ing, tithes
v.tr.
1. To contribute or pay a tenth part of (one's annual income).
2. To levy a tithe on.
v.intr.

(source: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tithe )

Apparently the meaning of "tithe" has changed over the centuries to mean some other percentage, what that percentage is is an unknown to the player (character) who obviously grew up in a bubble since they seem to know nothing about anything in the game, they don't know about tithing, don't know about ROMS, Devices, Cubes, Barrels - can't read anything, don't know chemistry (there is a chemical compound on one of the barrels).

Religions are pretty keen when it comes to explaining what these monetary "words" mean so their members will be certain to fulfill the 'law' of that religion. Mormonism (LDS) has dedicated itself to educate its members on the manner and amount of 'tithe' which boils down to '10%'. http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnex ... 004d82620a____

Jewish Culture, the founding religion of Christian 'Tithe' practices set the amount to 'one tenth' of ones possessions, not just money, but then it (the practice of tithing) came around during a time when folk considered material wealth to be the number of sheep in your flock, the amount of fruit you produced in your vineyard, etc.

The very word 'Tithe' comes from the Old English and means 'one tenth'.

Yet the Sisters of Domina Appear to desire/want far much more than a tithe (one tenth/10%).

The option to 'tithe' allows one to pick a number between 0 and the total amount of credits they own what ever it is they desire to give, be it just one credit or 100%.

Tithe should be a flat percentage of ones 'worth'. That percentage is 10%. "Tithe' button should then simply deduct 10% of your 'worth' in credits.

If the tithe is not 10% (one tenth) then it should be called something else, a love gift, a contribution, offering, alms, beneficence, bestowal, charity, gift, grant, I'm certain that there are other words. Which are on a sliding scale depending upon the hardness of the heart of the giver.

As an aside, I have accidentally donated all that I had in credits (70,000+) and have gotten the message 'Thank-you for your token contribution, may Domina open your heart to donate more.'

Greed may be good, but as far as I see this is a good reason NOT to go to the core, after all this is just one more of those religions that exist to make money and have nothing 'real' to offer in spirituality...

[Jeoshua]

Actually, they accept anything over 5% of your total worth happilly.

Trick is, everything you have in your cargo, everything installed on your ship, even your fuel count towards your worth.

[Aury]

Actually, they accept anything over 5% of your total worth happilly.

Trick is, everything you have in your cargo, everything installed on your ship, even your fuel count towards your worth.

Oh! that's why! >.<

[schilcote]

I find that dumping all my stuff into a cargo container then giving them all my cash makes them very, very happy.

[Prophet]

***********************
Warning spoilers abound!
***********************

Tithing to the sisters increases their attitude by +1 for each 5% of your total net worth given and can be done once every 33 seconds. Net worth is calculated as your total credit balance + 1000 + the value of all installed devices. The sisters attitude is checked when you ask for help like fuel, armor repair or decon services and contemplatation. You also gain attitude by donation of items. In the early game, 400 creds worth of food, 500 creds of meds or 750 creds of fuel will also get a +1 to attitude. The special items, which give +1 per item donated are hierolith crystals, death cubes, CDM archives and slave coffins. These also give a healthy boost to your domina relation which translates into XP and new powers.

[Wraithwynd]

Actually, they accept anything over 5% of your total worth happilly.

Trick is, everything you have in your cargo, everything installed on your ship, even your fuel count towards your worth.

How does one tabulate their 'net worth'?

[hex]

Every item in Transcendence has a value attribute, one assumes these are summed for the items you possess.

I would also suggest that the vast majority of people associate tithe with a 10% donation any more than they associate decimation with the killing of one in ten.

(character) who obviously grew up in a bubble since they seem to know nothing about anything in the game, they don't know about tithing, don't know about ROMS, Devices, Cubes, Barrels - can't read anything, don't know chemistry (there is a chemical compound on one of the barrels).

Yet can pilot a spaceship? This is perfectly reasonable, your character does know how to use ROMS, Devices, Cubes and Barrels this knowledge does not extend to an encyclopaedic knowledge of labels - why should your character know "Codeslinger" (say) refers to a weapon optimization program any more than the average person now knows what the program 'Delphi' does or 'EAGLE'?

[Daedal]

Yet can pilot a spaceship? This is perfectly reasonable, your character does know how to use ROMS, Devices, Cubes and Barrels this knowledge does not extend to an encyclopaedic knowledge of labels - why should your character know "Codeslinger" (say) refers to a weapon optimization program any more than the average person now knows what the program 'Delphi' does or 'EAGLE'?

This really is nitpicking, but let's use a car analogy. If I pick up a small, cube-like box labeled FRAM, I'm going to assume there's an oil filter inside. This is not the result of special study, just the result of having driven a car for a number of years and having changed my oil during that time. However, if I were to pick up a box with some exotic aftermarket part inside and no picture or description on the outside, I probably wouldn't know what it is.

Likewise, our protagonist in Transcendence is assumed to have piloted a ship for some time and ought to have a passing knowledge of commonly seen items. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense that he or she knows nothing at all about any item the player comes across. Even in terms of gameplay it would make sense to speed up the early part of the game by allowing the player to identify a few basic items.

[Wraithwynd]

Every item in Transcendence has a value attribute, one assumes these are summed for the items you possess.

I would also suggest that the vast majority of people associate tithe with a 10% donation any more than they associate decimation with the killing of one in ten.

(character) who obviously grew up in a bubble since they seem to know nothing about anything in the game, they don't know about tithing, don't know about ROMS, Devices, Cubes, Barrels - can't read anything, don't know chemistry (there is a chemical compound on one of the barrels).

Yet can pilot a spaceship? This is perfectly reasonable, your character does know how to use ROMS, Devices, Cubes and Barrels this knowledge does not extend to an encyclopaedic knowledge of labels - why should your character know "Codeslinger" (say) refers to a weapon optimization program any more than the average person now knows what the program 'Delphi' does or 'EAGLE'?

So your saying you don't know what 'Delphi' means? (bats-eyes-innocently).

You do, and I wager that a decent percentage of the population would understand what it means, even if they never worked with that form of programing, they have heard of it and know that it is a form of 'program language'.

Granted not 'common' knowledge, but some people do know these things if not by purposeful knowledge gathering (education) then just by hanging around listening in on conversations at the local pub.

There really is no reasonable way in the game to calculate your 'net-worth' to figure out what your tithe is supposed to be.

Mind I have accidentally given over 70,000 credits to get the message that basically says 'thanks for your token gift'. If 5% if the 'tithe' then I must have been worth 1.5 million+ credits and wasn't aware of it.

Again I point to the Mormons and the Jews, they take care to educate their prospective tithers to the fine points of what exactly the tithe is. The Sisters do not educate, they insult you then expect you to still have the desire to go to the core to do some mission for their 'god'.

[Atarlost]

Every item in Transcendence has a value attribute, one assumes these are summed for the items you possess.

I would also suggest that the vast majority of people associate tithe with a 10% donation any more than they associate decimation with the killing of one in ten.

(character) who obviously grew up in a bubble since they seem to know nothing about anything in the game, they don't know about tithing, don't know about ROMS, Devices, Cubes, Barrels - can't read anything, don't know chemistry (there is a chemical compound on one of the barrels).

Yet can pilot a spaceship? This is perfectly reasonable, your character does know how to use ROMS, Devices, Cubes and Barrels this knowledge does not extend to an encyclopaedic knowledge of labels - why should your character know "Codeslinger" (say) refers to a weapon optimization program any more than the average person now knows what the program 'Delphi' does or 'EAGLE'?

The vast majority of people who associate tithing with anything associate it with 10%. It is never used of any other fraction. Ancient Israel had multiple independent tithes on different schedules, each of 10%, but every modern church to use the term asks for 10%. In all cases it's 10% of income or increase, not of net worth.

Tithe is simply not a term used when not talking about religion, and is only used by Judaism derived religions.

On names, have you ever seen product packaging that didn't describe what the product was for? You'll find some exceptions for products so common knowledge you wouldn't even think of them(what's wine for? You drink it.) and maybe some specialized stuff you'd never buy unless you had the appropriate knowledge base. And that's where it really breaks down. You walk into a store as specialized as a spaceship equipment dealer and ask what "Codeslinger" is for and they'll tell you because they want you to be a happy customer. This sort of thing is customer service 101. So is not keeping defective ROMs in stock.

[Wraithwynd]

***********************
Warning spoilers abound!
***********************

Tithing to the sisters increases their attitude by +1 for each 5% of your total net worth given and can be done once every 33 seconds. Net worth is calculated as your total credit balance + 1000 + the value of all installed devices. The sisters attitude is checked when you ask for help like fuel, armor repair or decon services and contemplatation. You also gain attitude by donation of items. In the early game, 400 creds worth of food, 500 creds of meds or 750 creds of fuel will also get a +1 to attitude. The special items, which give +1 per item donated are hierolith crystals, death cubes, CDM archives and slave coffins. These also give a healthy boost to your domina relation which translates into XP and new powers.

Where, in the game, did you find this formula for calculating 'proper' tithe?

If one goes into their cargo hold, one doesn't find price tags on their stuff. If one views their equipment, one does not find a price tag on it. Off the top of your head, how many barrels of Centuri Rice equals 400 credits? You may know this now since you have played the game, but for the new player how do they reasonably uncover this tidbit of information?

So what I gather is that along with writing down the systems I have been to, keeping track of which ones have Black Markets, hotels, tinkers, etc, I also have to write down the price of all of my items in order to calculate a 'tithe' So I can give tithe every 33 seconds in the game in order to wrack up attitude points. A point system which is as much a mystery to the character/player since no where in the game is one told how many AP nor XP they have.

Actually nearly all of these particulars are a mystery to the player/character. No where in the game is such information 'revealed'.

Thus again I say that Tithe should be a 'flat' percentage. Most likely since the only thing the player can actually track reasonably it should be a percentage of their credits.

Further, instead of being insulted the character should be kindly educated in the art of 'Tithe', religions may be unclear about a lot of things, but when it comes to money they make it perfect clear how much they want.

[Prophet]

Most information is not given to the player in-game. This is a design choice. If you only want to Tithe the minimum amount necessary to be able to get a freebie from the sisters then you'll have to read through the xmls. If you want to roleplay the game then you Tithe what you feel is appropriate. Whether you give 10% of your creds on hand or your Gross worth, or whatever, thats up to you. Having the sisters Tithe expectations follow a specific real-world religion's rules would be ridiculous. Then again, perhaps the definition of Tithe will change in the next 400 years.

[Atarlost]

The defenition hasn't changed in the past 2500 what makes you think it'll change in a measly 400?

[Xephyr]

The defenition hasn't changed in the past 2500 what makes you think it'll change in a measly 400?

We weren't quite exploring space for the last 2500 years, either.

[hex]

There really is no reasonable way in the game to calculate your 'net-worth' to figure out what your tithe is supposed to be.

Agreed but calculating solely on credits is even more open to abuse than the current system because the amount of credits a player has at any one moment varies so wildly. There really isn't an easy way to say what does and doesn't constitute a reasonable donation (or even a donation of approx 10%) for a given player at a given time.

So your saying you don't know what 'Delphi' means? (bats-eyes-innocently).

Ok, so given the forum, picking Delphi as an example was asking for it but even if Delphi is more common than I realize what about Eagle (which is admittedly really obscure)? Who connected it with the free ware program for designing PCB fab files? I guess the point I'm trying to make is that not knowing what a ROM does doesn't really suggest that the character can't read.

Mind I have accidentally given over 70,000 credits to get the message that basically says 'thanks for your token gift'. If 5% if the 'tithe' then I must have been worth 1.5 million+ credits and wasn't aware of it.

Ouch , well my Lisp isn't great but the source would seem to suggest you could also get this message if you had donated in the recent past, a separate massage would make it clearer. The whole donation algorithm does seem a bit fragile; obviously if you donate 5 credits by accident then donate 50,000 you should still be rewarded.

The Sisters do not educate, they insult you then expect you to still have the desire to go to the core to do some mission for their 'god'.

I guess, although too me the story always seemed to suggest the character didn't really have a choice in the matter they where being compelled.