Modding Ideas

[Icabod458]

Greetings

I am not a modder but I would like to say something here.

Would it be possible to bet credits but randomly win rins? If so, this might help in the later levels before you find a Teraton or Ringers facility to trade for rins. I have played several games and a few times have found a Taikon Ventures station and no way to make a purchase.

If there happens to be a casino as you are proposing, getting rins in the early game might help in situations like the above. In the later game, once a player has gotten rins, the visitor to the casino could bet either credits or rins.

Another thought I have is in the later game, the randomness is removed: ie, if you bet credits, you get credits; if you bet rins, you get rins.

I do not know if what I have mentioned here is even possible, or what the credits to rins ratio is or should be. It is only a suggestion, bad or good.

I do like the idea and I wish you good luck in this undertaking.

[dvlenk6]

FAD:
I played around with ShadyLady (I think that is a good name for the casino stations too, Shady Lady Casinos has a nice ring to it).

I put an interim screen between the results and the next bet, so that you have to press 'Continue' before making the next bet. I changed the key statements for the bet options so that a letter in each option is yellow.

I rethought the debt aspect. There should be a bank/creditor screen in the casinos. I'm making that now. I'm making the game tell you that you can't afford a 'hand' if you don't have enough credits. Then you could visit the creditor to get a house loan. If you go negative, the Shady Lady autocreditor will automatically issue a small loan to put you at zero. I'm making bank/creditor loans at 5000, 10000, and 25000 credits available. Multiple loans are allowed right now (there's bugs still to work out, but that's the current idea), so interest should be steep to avoid exploitation.

Interest can be accumulated with a timer, not quite sure how the time works in Transcendence, so I'll have to tinker with that. Retributive action shouldn't happen immediately, that isn't very realistic. Bonebreaker types should only come after you when you stiff the casino credit dept for too long.

Fines can be leavied on debts (in addition to normal interest) each time you dock at a SL Casino. After...3?...4? visits without making a payment, bounty hunters can start to be dispatched and the barred/killed actions can come into it.

A bank could also convert credits to rins.
That could make the usefulness of the casino station last a lot longer in the game; but I'm afraid that converting credits to rins directly like that will unbalance the game too much. What do you guys think about that?

I think the casinos should come into play in level 4 systems and go on up through maybe level 8.
This would avoid the ability of the player to take out loans at the beginning of the game and build a powerful ship with them. By level 4 (St. K.'s is the first level 4 system), 25000 credits isn't all that much as opposed to Eridani, where 25000 credits would horribly unbalance the early part of the game.

[dvlenk6]

Here is the casino with a credit/debt office.
http://members.aol.com/dvlenk6/private/ ... st_v02.xml

I took the rins out of the game. To make the loans easier. You could put the rins back in and only allow credit loans (I am strongly oppesed to rin loans). There are no limits to the loans, that was for debugging really. There should probably be a mechanism for not allowing more than a certain amount of debt, else it will be to easy to exploit. I am unsure if there should be a credit to rin exchange; that seems a little overpowered for a station to have that.

If you don't have enough credits, it won't let you play, but will direct you to 'visit our in-house credit department.'

If you go negative, the 'Shady Lady autocreditor' automatically issues a loan to put you at zero credits and adds that amount to your debt.

There aren't any interest fees or fines yet, but that would be easy to put in, once we figure out what those should be. (sysAddObjRecurringTimerEvent interval obj event) will be able to add interest from time to time to the player's debt.

There aren't any docking restrictions either, those are so basic to do it isn't even worth worrying about it right now. Same with any bounty hunter stuff.

I added dialogues for giggles; but one of them is kind of important, because it reminds you at the default dockscreen that you owe the casino money and that there will be interest and (could be) fines added to the total.

[FAD]

Icabod458:

The answer to your question is yes. It can be coded to bet with credits and win rins. Our first casino test run was actually set up that way but agreeing with dvlenk6's decision to remove rins as a winning feature is wise due to possible Transcendence game unbalancing and, humans shouldn't have access to rins so early in the game.

Burzmali: That sounds like a killer game! Hope you can get it to work the way ya want it to. I'm looking forward to checking it out. Gotta name for it yet?

dvlenk6: Dang you've been busy! Glad to see you expanded on Shady Lady--it was desperately needed, thanks! We can use that name for the casino 'franchise' as well if ya want. Could also use a string of names too, if we want more versatility with the casino's.

I tried your link but got this error message:

The XML page cannot be displayed
Cannot view XML input using XSL style sheet. Please correct the error and then click the Refresh button, or try again later.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reference to undefined entity 'stCommonwealthResidentials'. Line 30, Position 2
Can ya email it to me?

The bank/creditor feature makes sense to have in the casino and, setting limits to them as well as applied and incremental interest rates is also wise. Great idea!
As for using the timer, It's used a lot in the missions codes so those will make great ref's in figuring out the length of time we want for loan pay-backs (and bounties). I'll take a closer look at the code to see how the timer works so to try and help you out there.

I'm also working on another code for betting, using the chance tables so we can have more flexibility with different types of gambling games. With the chance tables, you can set the pay-off variables to whatever you want and how many you want per gambling game.
I haven't done anything with the roll dice code yet but it's still in my list of "to do's" for this project. I'll probably get on that after working out the chance tables.

I agree, the casino's should be between level 4 and 8. Good call.

I'm not sure if your code (objSetData gPlayerShip "debt" (divide (multiply (gPlayerShip "debt") 125) 100)) will work with it having "debt" in it twice. It could cause a "too many arguments" error. Guess we'll have to test it to be sure, but it would simplify adding the interest if it works.

Is there a way to code a multiple timer for one event? I'm thinking that with the higher debts, with a timer set for pay-back upon docking, and if it's exceeded (player never docked), a second timer will execute for barring the player (only dock options being "Undock" and "Pay Debt"). A third timer to unleash the bounty and once that's exceeded, it will execute the timer for the airlock result upon docking. This would in a sense, give the player a "3 strikes and your out" chance to settle up. And if it came down to the bounties level, set a text message (similar to the CorporateOnDestroy) to something like "This is your last chance to pay your gambling debt. Dock at the nearest casino immediately." or whatever, to let the player know they better dock and pay real soon, or the game will end whenever they do dock with the sovereign we place the casino in.
I kinda like the idea of having both the bounty and the airlock result. It's serious business with collecting large debts and some organizations have been known to get real nasty.

At any rate, whatever sovereign we decide to use for the casino, the "pay debt" event would have to be global in order to cover all the stations in that sovereign and not just the casino's. Can't allow a slacker to get away with cheating the system too easily.

EDIT: About the casino bank converting credits to rins, maybe set a limit cap and only allow one conversion per casino station (similar to placing orders at the TP). This would probably curb the unbalancing since every new game generates a different amount of same stations. Sometimes you'll find 3-8 Tinkers in a game, but maybe only 1 in another. But if we did this, we'd have to move the casino's up to (or near) the levels where rins are available.

[dvlenk6]

You're right:

Code: Select all

(objSetData gPlayerShip "debt" (divide (multiply (gPlayerShip "debt") 125) 100)) 

isn't going to work. (gPlayerShip "debt") at the end is wrong, not an argement.
It should read like this:

Code: Select all

(objSetData gPlayerShip "debt" (divide (multiply (objGetData gPlayerShip "debt") 125) 100)) 

- - - - -

System Level of Casino vs. 'rin economy' stations:
Save you from looking up the info:

Ringers Collectives start to appear at lvl 6 systems.
Ringers Shipyarrds: level 7.
Taikon Ventures: level 7.
Teraton Trading Station: level 7.
Other Teratons: level 8
Level 4 through 8 for the Casino seems all right. The Casinos are petering out when the rest of the rin economy is picking up. That seems like a decent transition to me. I don't know how the poor casinos are going to survive in those hostile territories though .

[FAD]

Level 4 through 8 for the Casino seems all right. The Casinos are petering out when the rest of the rin economy is picking up. That seems like a decent transition to me. I don't know how the poor casinos are going to survive in those hostile territories though .

Guess we'll havta create our own ship to help defend the casinos. Equipped with level 6 items would be balanced between 4 and 8. Ship could also be used for bounties too. I'm liking that idea of making a new ship a lot now.
Hadn't even thought about what armor to use on the casino or if it should even have turrets or equipped with a weapon to help defend.
Dang! Those Ranx Dreadnaught's would have a field day on them if they're not defended!
Could consider equipping the casino with a mark I howitzer or heavy slam cannon (both are level 5 weapons).

BTW, I got the chance table to work and made a new gambling game. I sent the xml in email to you.

burzmali, if you want it as well, let me know.

[dvlenk6]

...Those Ranx Dreadnaught's would have a field day on them if they're not defended!....

A Ranx dreadnaught is going to walk all over it almost no matter what you put on it, unless you just get down right silly about it. I'm not sure I care for the idea of a recreational facility with the capability of beating the crap out of a Dreadnaught.
If there happens to be ranx dreads wandering around in the vacinity of a casino...well, that's the breaks.
New ship, station, and dockscreen graphics are always good, IMO.

EDIT - All these IBL renders I'm doing at 64 RPP are taking forever .
I will be able to look at your xml, and work on some of the stuff that was in your email, but I won't be able to run Transcendence to test them with multiple renders going on. Won't be able to do that until this evening.

[FAD]

That is the best choice. Leave it to chance and only have a guard ship or two for protection.

So are we going to set a limit to the amount of games the casino will have? A maximum of 5 or 6 should do well so as to not overcrowd the dockscreen, unless we go several layers with them. Then we could have more games I suppose.

I've got a couple more ideas for games and there's some codes I want to try on them to see if they'll work, so off I go...

[dvlenk6]

I rearanged the 'default' dockscreen to:
(G)aming Lobby
(C)redit Department
(B)ar Room
(D)ock Services
(U)ndock

Refuel is the only option for the dock services.
Nothing done with Bar Room yet.

Gaming Lobby has games listed. Both the ones you sent have been put in. I rearranged the 'Results' so that you do each games calculations in their own dockscreens, set some variables (win/lose, amount, message), and feed them into the 'Results' dockscreen, which will them spit out the resulting variables.

Right now 'Results' also issues autoloans for when you go into negative credits. I'm thinking that it should not be possible to lose more than you bet. That is possible to do in both games right now. Maybe it should be made harder to win, with no chance of losing more than you initially bet. That is up to you; but that would be my recommendation.

Still didn't put a limit on loans, will do so. Didn't make anything with rin conversion yet either. I still can't test any of this. I'm afraid if I start Transcendence while doing all of these renders that my processor will meltdown through the floor of the house and keep going until it hits ground water .

Anything else you want to add, put here, and I'll see what I can do.

I think I will need help with timer events.

[FAD]

I've ran a few tests on v.02...YGM

Well, I took a look at the TP (order item) code...I'd like to be able to use that text-type feature for a game that would allow the player to type in a given word like "King", "Jack"...etc. for user playable variables. But that code gave me a headache on top of the one I already had.
I think it should work once I figure it out. Could use clickable card names instead I suppose... would be easier to code. Just use the upper deck.

We can wait on the rins for now if you want. It's really not that pressing of an issue.

About putting a limit on loans, what about also allowing one loan at a time, pay it off and then be eligible to get another loan set-up? Or what about setting a "rank" code that would allow the player to only be able to get the 5000 loan. Once it's paid off, player raises in rank and then can get the 10000 loan, then same with the big loan.

I just took a look at the agri timer and BM timer codes. Both are different but we may be able to use both in combination for the debt/timer. I'll keep looking around for more possibilities. The militia missions are next...

Are there any code symbols for "greater than" "less than" "equal to" for variables?

Right now 'Results' also issues autoloans for when you go into negative credits. I'm thinking that it should not be possible to lose more than you bet. That is possible to do in both games right now. Maybe it should be made harder to win, with no chance of losing more than you initially bet. That is up to you; but that would be my recommendation.

It wouldn't be hard to change the code in the chance tables in game 2, but there would be a lot of same values with the lose code. Manipulating the chance will make winning harder. A lot harder! I may still have the original chance table code that was extremely hard to win....I'll look for it.
Changing the lose code in Shady Lady should be real simple as well. But as for making Shady Lady harder to win, might take a bit of work, since it goes by random instead of chance.

[dvlenk6]

...Are there any code symbols for "greater than" "less than" "equal to" for variables?...

(gr (arg1) (arg2)) <- Greater Than
(ls ...) <- Less than
(eq ...) <-equal to
(geq ...) greater than or equal to
(leq ...) less than or equal to
(or ...) <- returns true if any statement is true
(and ...) <-returns true if all statements are true.
(not ...) <-returns true is statement is false. or a variable is 'empty'

[FAD]

Ahhh... So that's what those are. So now to try and figure out the calc's (what I mentioned in my last email for game 2) to display the results dialogue. We'll only need to use (gr and (ls in the code for that unless you think we should have additional variables for a tie--followed by a tie breaker?

[dvlenk6]

KISS - Keep it simple stupid. No tie-breakers. You draw, you lose. That is a pretty common method used by casino to give the house an edge anyway.

The calculations shouldn't be that difficult, just a simple comparison of two random numbers should suffice.
I don't think you would need to use staticdata to show card name, simple (switch setting 'PlayerCard' and 'AICard' variables should be able to do the trick. There are only 5 if you are using a standard deck, unless you want to add a suit? I'd advise against that, because then you'd have to check for duplications.

Code: Select all

(block NIL
 (setq cardname cardnumber)
 (if (or (gr cardnumber 10) (eq cardnumber 1))
  (switch
   (eq cardnumber 1)
    (setq cardname "Ace")
   (eq cardnumber 11)
    (setq cardname "Jack")
...
  )
 )
)

So you would need four variables for the cards: playercard#, playercard, AIcard#, AIcard. Two switches, one for the player card, one for the aicard. That isn't very 'efficient' but with such a small number of checks it isn't a big deal. If it were a larger script block or being used many times, it would be better to use a lambda function (i.e. '(setq intSetCardName (lambda (cardnumber)' and direct the script to that each time, rather than duplicating the switches script.

You might want to use the lambda anyhow, just for practice, and it is generally a good idea to use those whenever possible to cut down on the file size of the script you are working on. Debugging a single lambda function is also much easier than seraching through duplicate script blocks for typos and the like.

The Lambda Functions for Transcendence are in Transcendence.xml, search for <Globals>, that is where they are kept.
You can find examples of function calls are in the station dockscreens, check some of the dockservices ones, I know many of them use a lambda to set which fuel rod is being used and it's cost. Those are simple enough that you will be able to track down the corresponding function in transcendence.xml and figure out the way they are formatted.

[FAD]

Yep, you're right. I looked over the dockservices code and it has great examples for using Lambda. Although I'm going to hold off from that aspect for now and continue working on the timer code. I'd like to get that all set and ready so as to put the final touches on the loans code.

---------

@ Burzmali; How's it going with your game idea? Haven't heard anything in a while. Also, do you want the current casino xml to bring you up to date with what we have so far as well as for when you complete your game, you can add it in?

[dvlenk6]

FAD, I've been busy. I haven't been ignoring you .