I make websites. It's something fun I like to do. And I hate internet explorer, because I like to develop not-ugly websites. Explorer seems to be designed with the motto "Let's screw everyone else".
For instance, just today I was making an attempt once again at some CSS that would work in IE well, and I tried to find the IE version that is on my machine. The Help section wherein resides the About Internet Explorer seems to be broken. I push the buttons, nothing happens. I have no idea where to find the version I am using. Why? Ye Gods of Browsers, have pity on me!
I blame AOL. Someone put AOL software on this machine before I came along, and whaddya know- it's infested IE, and it won't go away.
Well, ignoring all that I proceeded to search the web for a work around for the fact that IE won't support the CSS min-width setting.
min-width is a simple goal I thought, and IE can handle it, right?
My opinion on the result would be censored in most places. I found a few samples out there claiming to have <divs> that used CSS to set the min-width for IE versions 5 and higher... and you know what, they didn't work! Yup, the min width was ignored by my IE. I love it when the tutorials for fixing IE bugs don't actually even work for IE.
Do you think the IE developers are busy making sure things continue not to work in each new version if people find work-arounds?
Maybe I should create a site with bogus tutorials that don't work and run around calling myself a CSS guru (even if I prefer flash). What a crock of IE bugs! I mean, it's like there's this whole world of idiots out there who can't even get their own tutorials right. Much less deal with the real problem- Internet Explorer.
Now, this is a machine that was purchased with Vista on it a mere 6 months ago, so it must be IE 5 or higher, right? Well, I don't know because IE won't tell me. (see above) But I have to presume that it is recent enough to meet the supposed IE version minimum for the CSS sample.
Of course, it works great in firefox, but then firefox considers min-width something website designers might want to make use of. Go figure. (I love Mozilla *sniffle* And they love me.)
Yes, that's the fun I had today trying to incorporate IE into my life- and you now have a little more insight as to why it is that I like to blow things up (in transcendence and other games, although, admittedly, I like fireworks and gunpowdery play in general).
Yes, I am rambling. Isn't that great!
But it's so, well, insulting to have some browsers disregard the most basic of CSS. After all, aren't they all pushing it down our throats to begin with?
My inner artist is a screaming child that would happily pull IE's hair out for the rest of the millenium.
I mean, why do we want CSS in the first place? I will tell you - so that we can design beautiful page layouts regardless of the content. Does min-width really pose such a threat to IE? Why ignore such a simple and useful CSS value, among all the other ones being ignored?
And why do people still use IE? It makes no sense to me. But we can't run around making websites that tell people "Oh, No! You are an IE user, better go [link to download Firefox] and get a life!" much as we would like to.
Over the past 6 or 7 years of tinkering with website building I have run across no end of difficulty in getting pages to look good in IE. And as for the Flash problems, I won't go there.
But, considering that the Flash Player is on 700 million machines, (more than IE is on.. SURPRISE!) I have to deal with it. Too bad MS can't suck it up and admit that it's Us, the users, you and me and the other hundreds of millions, who really matter and what we want is our webpages to look like what we want them to look like without exceeding frustration. And, clearly the majority favors Flash. Except for those oldtimers over at [link removed], who just don't get it.
Imagine that, fun with IE? What? Standards Compliance?
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Periculi
- Fleet Officer
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It's not just Firefox, my friends. (thanks for the FF love though!)
It's a little thing called Standards Compliance.
Being Standards Compliant is important, and it is the same reason I use the UNID 'standards' that George uses. Rather than create my own system and only share it with those that qualify (pay), I use the standard that the majority uses so that we can all work together. And so that you don't have to learn a new method just to deal with my specific code.
Standards Compliance. It's as important as a standard measuring system. If we all created our own way to measure distance, whether it worked accurately or not, it would throw the building industry, amongst others, into mass confusion. Every carpenter you hired would need to be trained to deal with your measurement standards... ugh! Imagine how expensive a house would be to build and how difficult it would be to order materials!
Why should people treat computer code that is spread publicly any differently? My opinion is that they shouldn't. Having each browser in the market rendering html according to it's own standards is a recipe for ugly websites and long rants in random forums. (just the tip of the iceberg for the actual problem.. lol!)
Standards Compliance- whether everything is open source or not, a standard needs to be adhered to. Especially in the case of a product that's sole purpose is to present other people's designs! Browsers aren't stand alone programs (like transcedence). They REQUIRE users in order to exist. Both content generation and content consumption. (websites and viewers) The people producing content SHOULD NOT be limited to choosing a browser program to target for 'best' delivery. Anyone who thinks that (IE developers?) is probably living in the 90's when websites were a novelty. Back then, you could abuse your user. Since the bubble popped, websites that succeed are the ones who serve their users. The best way to serve users of browsers is standards compliance. Period.
It's a little thing called Standards Compliance.
Being Standards Compliant is important, and it is the same reason I use the UNID 'standards' that George uses. Rather than create my own system and only share it with those that qualify (pay), I use the standard that the majority uses so that we can all work together. And so that you don't have to learn a new method just to deal with my specific code.
Standards Compliance. It's as important as a standard measuring system. If we all created our own way to measure distance, whether it worked accurately or not, it would throw the building industry, amongst others, into mass confusion. Every carpenter you hired would need to be trained to deal with your measurement standards... ugh! Imagine how expensive a house would be to build and how difficult it would be to order materials!
Why should people treat computer code that is spread publicly any differently? My opinion is that they shouldn't. Having each browser in the market rendering html according to it's own standards is a recipe for ugly websites and long rants in random forums. (just the tip of the iceberg for the actual problem.. lol!)
Standards Compliance- whether everything is open source or not, a standard needs to be adhered to. Especially in the case of a product that's sole purpose is to present other people's designs! Browsers aren't stand alone programs (like transcedence). They REQUIRE users in order to exist. Both content generation and content consumption. (websites and viewers) The people producing content SHOULD NOT be limited to choosing a browser program to target for 'best' delivery. Anyone who thinks that (IE developers?) is probably living in the 90's when websites were a novelty. Back then, you could abuse your user. Since the bubble popped, websites that succeed are the ones who serve their users. The best way to serve users of browsers is standards compliance. Period.
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Arisaya
- Fleet Admiral
- Posts: 5561
- Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:10 am
- Location: At the VSS Shipyards in the frontier, designing new ships.
Actually my point is take over the globe w/ firefox so we get a standardized browser instead... 
(shpOrder gPlayership 'barrelRoll)
<New tutorials, modding resources, and official extension stuff coming to this space soon!>
<New tutorials, modding resources, and official extension stuff coming to this space soon!>
Indeed, IE 7.Periculi wrote:Now, this is a machine that was purchased with Vista on it a mere 6 months ago, so it must be IE 5 or higher, right?
And I sympathise
I use FF. I'm not much of a coder-ey person, but from things I read such as this thread, I try to get as many as people as I can to throw off the shackles of IE.I devote a lot of time (out of my oodles of spare time) getting people to move to Firefox, or Opera, Safari etc. if they don't like it. I've caused at least 1000 people to become regular users of FF since I convinced my school to move away from IE for security (and to not let ordinary users such as I to be able to run netpass.exe >_>). I might make it a career
