Your .99/.99a ship & experience

[Sponge]

This is all being thrown in too early. He'd make a great mid-game boss tho.

I'm not sure about this. I don't know how tough he is in the Freighter, as I've yet to try, but he doesn't stand a chance against a Wolfen, even with starting gear. His weapons just can't get through the hull plate ionizer quick enough to have any effect. If a hull plate ionizer is enough to best him, I don't think he's nearly robust enough to be a mid-game boss.

[Vastin]

This is all being thrown in too early. He'd make a great mid-game boss tho.

I'm not sure about this. I don't know how tough he is in the Freighter, as I've yet to try, but he doesn't stand a chance against a Wolfen, even with starting gear. His weapons just can't get through the hull plate ionizer quick enough to have any effect. If a hull plate ionizer is enough to best him, I don't think he's nearly robust enough to be a mid-game boss.

Hehe. No, no. I didn't mean with the lightweight weapons and armor he has currently. I mean that the KINDS of challenges he poses are good mid-game challenges. Near immunity to common damage types, an offensive weapon with a surprisingly heavy kick that you don't really want to get near, and a quest to go deal with him that gives you a sample of the weapon type you'll need to beat him.

Imagine him as a ventauri destroyer with prototype shields that requires you to mount a one-shot rack of anti-matter missiles to defeat.

[Sheltem]

to complete my story:

I unpacked 6 mules an carriered some 100 tons of ore to the ringers.
I also made a great "delivery" for the nightclubbers
But most rins where made by selling some high level wepons to the teratrons.
I bought a plasma torch and tritium cannon. Then I visited all Teratrons, but no Jumpdrive nor a IM90 was found. It was odd that some Teratrons mugged me after I had visited several Trade Chambers to sell them some precious weapons :-/
Although I had good weaponry, it looked combatability is measured by reactor mainly, so I thought about getting a hyperion for 220k crds or a koshiba. I decided for a koshiba so Commonwealth stations still can refill me.
Now I had plasma torch, tritium cannon, omni particle, 500MW, yoroi mx.
Next I lost 3mules on a transport to a ventari cruiser and ranx :-/
but luckyly I found 3 mules I had bought earlier
I got problems with ranx - omni particle was not good enough to get their def3 down and my yoroi mx was not good enough for blast damage, so I was happy I finally transported enough rare armor to Dvalin to get his 50% Akan Turret.
After doing a mining session again, I had accumulated about 350k crds and 250k rins, so I decided to make the final step. I needed a weapon to kill the Iocrym.
Without Lampligther and IM90 I thought about the alternatives ... QAC, Plasma Cannon, Krytn Cannon ...
I got bored killing Sung Citadels - its quite annoying that your shield can be the Iocrym Cocoon - it gets hacked and you are roasted in a stream of particle shots
Thats why changed the plan - I bought a Hyperion, Plasma Cannon and Taikon200 and headed for the Iocrym. The job was done in some minutes of heavy plasma fire, the Iocrym eagerly fired back but the shields hold it.
After crucial hull damage, the CommandShip suffered a great explosion disintegrating the wreck completly
So Sheltem VI is now waiting for a packet from SpaceX arrives with a hyperglyph rod. Until then, she is selling damaged Ares-pieces to tinkers.
(my account at last was 250k crd and 100k rins (100k crds were spent for fuel!))

Sheltem VI was resurected by Domina for 4 times. First and second time after suffering Meth Enforcers, third time after overestimating the fuel gauge and last time after selfdestructing to turn back time, because the Korolovs had rebuilt their station and took all the junk that was stored in the destroyed station.


You should calm down a bit, Vastin. I once also thought like you, but its not the way of a rougelike game. Rougelikes distinguishes itself that you experience many things in a game and not always everthing in a game, so it implies you should and can play more than one time and learn. While doing this, you may also die. Transcendence is better than most rougelikes because you get revived. If its your goal not to die in your first game, you are overestimating yourself. You should think the same thing about new players, if they cant stand dieing, they are wont like transcendence at all ...

I tried to kill Arco with a freigther. Bought a def2 and attacked. His first two bolts got the shield down, the third destroyed the titanium plate. I think a player needs more advanced equipment, like plasteel and a turbolaser. These items are not likely to get in Eridani, so instead of weakening Arco, you could just let him be, and come back later with an IM90 and roast im apart

Although, I wondered how to find him ? I visited Raisu station, but they said I should leave. Someone spoil me, please, and Vastin, don't tell me again Arco is much stronger than the other enemies in Eridani, I agree with you

[Aury]

why not just buy a hull plate ionizer? they've got those in eridani...

[Vastin]

You should calm down a bit, Vastin. I once also thought like you, but its not the way of a rougelike game. Rougelikes distinguishes itself that you experience many things in a game and not always everthing in a game, so it implies you should and can play more than one time and learn. While doing this, you may also die. Transcendence is better than most rougelikes because you get revived. If its your goal not to die in your first game, you are overestimating yourself. You should think the same thing about new players, if they cant stand dieing, they are wont like transcendence at all ...

Nope. Gotta strongly disagree with you here. You are assuming a HUGE amount of knowledge about the game when it comes to this encounter. Knowledge which simply isn't available in the UI and comes of many hours of play. YOU know how to beat Arcos, I know how to beat him, but a brand new player could easily die to him 10-20 times in a row and still have not one clue what they were doing wrong (aside from trying to fight him at all). But no new player is going to die that many times - this encounter is so early that they'll quit after the 1st or 2nd try.

I've been making games professionally for 15 years, and one of the big things the industry learned was that NOTHING drives away a new player quite like a big difficulty spike in the first hour or so of play.

Once they've been playing for a good 2-4 hours and start to feel confident, then you can kill em all you like. But if you slap them around before that hook sets, then they're gone - usually doesn't matter how 'hard-core' they are, or how much they might enjoy that genre of game. Disinterest sets in almost immediately at that early stage. That's why most modern console games start out so incredibly easy nowadays. It's an intentional confidence building stage that lets the player get invested in the game before it gets hard. Transcendence actually followed that framework very well up until .99a, but Arcos definitely breaks the model. He's the only thing that requires a special loadout in the first 4-5 systems I'd say, and he's right up front.

He's a classical 'blocker' - exactly the kind of thing that we strive desperately to avoid doing whenever we're making a new game.

[FAD]

One thing we're overlooking here is that Arco is NOT a mandatory obstacle to overcome in order to progress beyond Eridani. Taking on that mission is an option and one that will allow a new player to understand that there will be bigger, meaner obstacles to encounter--Arco sets the pace for this.

He's fine as is and I believe that if any new player cannot figure out how to defeat him after a couple attempts and repeated mistakes, they'll try other available alternatives....like using the missile rack or missiles given them when they first agree to go after him.

[Periculi]

Wow, I thought Eridani vastly nerfed and Arco was an easy target in a sapphire thanks to those give away missiles from the revenge gal in Raisu station.

Which reminds me- I think I figured out what the sapphire is for it's for

*halfway into this next sentence, Periculi gets jumped by the new and improved random equipment and tricks and traps mods (one from the left, one from above) which are getting ravenous for new player blood as they await some final nastiness to be added to make life challenging for any who dare enter Earth Space*

[digdug]

Periculi gets jumped by the new and improved random equipment and tricks and traps mods

Are you already working on the next version of random equipment mod ? PM me because i got an idea too.

[Vastin]

Wow, I thought Eridani vastly nerfed and Arco was an easy target in a sapphire thanks to those give away missiles from the revenge gal in Raisu station.

I notice your status reads 2007, so you've been playing this game in one form or another for about a year. You know it inside and out by now and make so many assumptions about how it can or should be played that you don't even realize you're doing it.

Take a little brother or some other 'occasional' gamer who has never seen this game, and sit them down in front of Transcendence and watch them play for two hours. Dont say ANYTHING - not one hint or suggestion, don't even tell them where the 'help' function is - the entire time and don't touch the keyboard.

You will find it to be a very, very enlightening experience.

As a game designer it also tends to be a painfully humbling experience watching intelligent people fumble and struggle to use systems you thought were so simple and intuitive.

[Vastin]

He's fine as is and I believe that if any new player cannot figure out how to defeat him after a couple attempts and repeated mistakes, they'll try other available alternatives....like using the missile rack or missiles given them when they first agree to go after him.

Hmm. Do you suppose they'll know about the targeting ROM you need to hit with those missiles outside his firing range? Assuming they even rolled one when they started? What do you suppose they should do if the DIDN'T roll a targeting rom? I suppose they could save up for the Hull Induction shield - except, they don't even know what a kinetic weapon is, much less that Arcos' guns are kinetic.

I wonder if the average newb will figure out that they even have an active inventory by the time they reach Arcos ('U')? I think in my first game I made it past Charon before I discovered that function.

[Aury]

He's fine as is and I believe that if any new player cannot figure out how to defeat him after a couple attempts and repeated mistakes, they'll try other available alternatives....like using the missile rack or missiles given them when they first agree to go after him.

Hmm. Do you suppose they'll know about the targeting ROM you need to hit with those missiles outside his firing range? Assuming they even rolled one when they started? What do you suppose they should do if the DIDN'T roll a targeting rom? I suppose they could save up for the Hull Induction shield - except, they don't even know what a kinetic weapon is, much less that Arcos' guns are kinetic.

I wonder if the average newb will figure out that they even have an active inventory by the time they reach Arcos ('U')? I think in my first game I made it past Charon before I discovered that function.

I discovered "U" in lalande in 98d... (that's one of the two options for the system after eridani)

My display kept saying:
"Press to use items in your cargo hold"
"Enemy Ships Detected"
"Press to use items in your cargo hold"
"Autopilot Enabled"
"Press to use items in your cargo hold"
"Autopilot Disabled"
"Press to use items in your cargo hold"
"Autopilot Enabled"
"Press to use items in your cargo hold"

[Vastin]

One thing we're overlooking here is that Arco is NOT a mandatory obstacle to overcome in order to progress beyond Eridani.

That's an intersting point... How do you know that you can win the game without beating Arcos?

[Vastin]

He's fine as is and I believe that if any new player cannot figure out how to defeat him after a couple attempts and repeated mistakes, they'll try other available alternatives....like using the missile rack or missiles given them when they first agree to go after him.

Hmm. Do you suppose they'll know about the targeting ROM you need to hit with those missiles outside his firing range? Assuming they even rolled one when they started? What do you suppose they should do if the DIDN'T roll a targeting rom? I suppose they could save up for the Hull Induction shield - except, they don't even know what a kinetic weapon is, much less that Arcos' guns are kinetic.

I wonder if the average newb will figure out that they even have an active inventory by the time they reach Arcos ('U')? I think in my first game I made it past Charon before I discovered that function.

I discovered "U" in lalande in 98d... (that's one of the two options for the system after eridani)

My display kept saying:
"Press to use items in your cargo hold"
"Enemy Ships Detected"
"Press to use items in your cargo hold"
"Autopilot Enabled"
"Press to use items in your cargo hold"
"Autopilot Disabled"
"Press to use items in your cargo hold"
"Autopilot Enabled"
"Press to use items in your cargo hold"

They'll get it eventually, but never underestimate the average user's ability to ignore prompts that do not actively block their ability to do so. I've watched users in tests blow off prompts of that sort for HOURS without even realizing they were doing so - to the point where I wanted to do nothing more than strangle the life from their bodies and scream 'LOOK AT THE GODDAMN PROMPT YOU MORON!!!'.

But that's the reality of user behavior.

[Vastin]

Anyway, I've said my piece and this thread is getting out of hand.

Just be careful of elitism. Game communities that fall into that mold eventually shrink to nothing as they prevent new players from joining.

[Betelgeuse]

I don't think it is so much elitism as wanting to teach new people about the game. If you don't teach them to use items in the first system when do you do it? If you don't teach them that some are resistant to your weapons in the first system when do you do it? If you don't teach them that missiles are more powerful weapons in the first system where do you do it?

If you set up the idea early on that every enemy can just be charged at and you win you are misleading the new player into thinking this is a different kind of game that it is.