Capships and garrisons

[F50]

This has been disscussed in a thread known as that I think was
called "Tougher Capships Please".

Capships are somewhat easy to defeat currently as you can just
batter them from afar with a long range weapon. They also often
compliment their other ships, so what about having Capships
store(eg. garrison) smaller ships within them? When one smaller
ship is destroyed, it is eventually replenished from the base or
gate. The exception are the Hurin destroyers, who don't have
smaller ships to begin with(they are also the first capships you
meet).

[Revolver]

I thought that Drake and Tripoli ships were classified as capships, no?

[OddBob]

I thought that Drake and Tripoli ships were classified as capships, no?

Not to mention Earth Slavers.

But as far as, your idea, goes, that would make all capships carriers. Not that I have anything wrong with carriers, but I wouldn't like every large ship to be one.

I think the real problem with capships is that they don't pack enough weaponry.
Plus, there are only two kinds. Big slow ones with medium amounts of weaponry and big slow ones with slightly smaller amounts of weaponry.

Even though I don't think that they need to spawn fighters, they do need to have an escort, and at least twice the firepower, much of it long range.
Then, capships need to be made avoidable (or less common), because they'll be stronger. All this really means is no capships in a garrison, because you can sneak around one on patrol. You may or may not be able to run away afterwards, but that's what you get for attacing a station before you can handle the capships.

It involves quite a balancing act. If capships are super beefy, how does the player eliminate them?

I'd also like to see at least one more type of capship:
A Destroyer, with lots and lots of weapons, and not much armor. Really fast, both in top speed and acceleration. Relies on its offensive power and speed in a fight. It can't stand a prolonged fire-fight with really anything, so if it doesn't win right away, it runs away. Destroyers defend the fleet from smaller ships.

[Revolver]

I definately think that capships should not have the speed to chase you, that's not what cap ships do, they're made for assualting big things that don't move. In historical context capships are made for simply arriving and slugging it out, they would have other ships to protect them from the player class ships.

[Guest]

Drakes and Tripoli should not be carriers for sure!

A Destroyer, with lots and lots of weapons, and not much armor. Really fast, both in top speed and acceleration. Relies on its offensive power and speed in a fight. It can't stand a prolonged fire-fight with really anything, so if it doesn't win right away, it runs away. Destroyers defend the fleet from smaller ships.

This should not be classifyed as a capship. But could be classifyed as something else. Dreadnoughts are useless without a squad of other ships. With the exception of the Dreadnought and Hurin, I agree very much that capships should shoot at range, the nando bolt cannon has the capacity to fire at range, IF the ship uses it. Also, consider the Ranx's line of ships, from small gunships to distract the ICX and flesh the player out, to the Dreadnought which is powerfull but useless without support. Part of the reson for this solution is that a capship can always be relieved of its fleet, but it will never be without ships if they are garrisoned. The way I imagine it is that if someoene shoots at the Dreadnought or get shot at(and doesn't die) by the Ranx itself, the Ranx will ungarrison. As for weaponry, the player, at first, cannot take on the weaponry that would be required to fend off the late-game player. Variation from ship to ship(based on the system's distance from St. K's) is the only way that I can think of to deal with that. However, the problem that I am trying to address with this is the fact that any player can defeat any capship as long as they have a Shuriken Nutron Blaster or greater. And no amount of weaponry currently used by capships save 6-10 ion cannons or an 100 range Kiloton cannon(or two) can deal with that. To further clarify, there are two problems with capships right now. A: blasting at range is a garranteed way of getting rid of a capship. B: Capships need further guns to deal with late-game players.

[Betelgeuse]

I am not sure if I want cap ships to fire from further. They already have tons of power. If they got more powerful then nothing would stand a chance. I don't want it that you have to have a icx to even enter a system or you die. As for the Tripoli I see that as more of a missile ship. (the only real capship that uses missiles is the corporate cruiser)

There is a need for carriers but not to replace the current capships. (those need to be re balanced anyway)

Two big problems with making capships more powerful is that already it is becoming hard to find an intact CSC ship and there are infinite amount of them due to reenforcements.

Blasting at range is a good way of getting rid of any ships. If they suddenly have a way to out range you then there is no chance for regular stations to survive (even the red guys if the corp gets a regular capship)

[Revolver]

maybe a way to boost capship defenses and armor, or give them more unique abilities (ie hacks). Maybe have them be able to scramble your radar or visual display or use tractor beams so the smaller ships can finish you off?

[SparcMan]

I fail to see the problem with having capships do double-duty as carriers. Granted, the context is different, but it works for the Star Destroyers in Star Wars right?

[Betelgeuse]

It because I want more types of ships and carriers need to be alittle more bulky than the current capships. I am thinking sung transport size.

[the_holy_thom]

yeah, why turn every capship into a carrier when you can have both?

my thoughts:

- long range cap ships are terrifying. when a ranx dread is pounding you and you cant even see it, you get scared. thats good. a couple more ships like this (that arent common) would be quite nice.

Two big problems with making capships more powerful is that already it is becoming hard to find an intact CSC ship and there are infinite amount of them due to reenforcements.

I think CSCs need to be beefed up anyway, so they could be made to withstand harder ships. also the commonwealth needs a greater variety of ships - they can still be centurions, but vary the weaponery. give one a heavy weapon, one a fast fire and keep the current one. a balanced defense force then.

also there doesnt need to be a infinite amount - just remove them from reinforcements and ships that gate in, so there is only a preset amount for certain stations, or even systems.

[Guest]

Two big problems with making capships more powerful is that already it is becoming hard to find an intact CSC ship and there are infinite amount of them due to reenforcements.

Infinite number is ok, just so long as you *can* avoid them. CSC's should be more powerful anyway so that is not a problem either. As for other stations, as mentioned in another topic, they should be powerful enough to withstand a capship too(they can't right now). Blasting at range is a problem for capships because they are so slow and don't dodge, for most ships it is easier to fight them within visual range. As for the ICX, I was not suggesting that we give the Dreadnought more range with the Kiloton. Capships do need smaller ships. Otherwize they are toast. As stated in another topic, Capships are already bigger than they appear, a real Dreadnought would be the size of the wolfen's visual range(scaling appropriately).

[dvlenk6]

...As for other stations, as mentioned in another topic, they should be powerful enough to withstand a capship too(they can't right now)...

I don't think every station should be able to withstand something like a ranx dreadnought, only some of them.
How could a merchant station with a couple gunships possibly be able to defend itself against an enourmous battleship type vessel with thermonuclear weapons?

[the_holy_thom]

By offering a 50% discount on selected goods

[hookoa]

How about R5's or Invincible class deflectors in CSCs? I mentioned R5s for carriers in the unofficial transcendence forum, but I think the Invincible might work well. If the centurions are using R1 deflectors which are old technology (compared to R5s) then it'd be reasonable to assume the CSCs would be fielding slightly older technology as well. The Invincible is a decent shield, has its own (horrible) drawback, and would be (I'm guessing) state of the art when the CSCs were built.

Maybe certain cap ships could carry gunships, but in limited numbers. Carriers would be fun to battle against, but I can see certain ships carrying their own escorts. Blimps carried a limited number of bi-planes, navy cruisers sometimes have a couple of heli-pads, star destroyers carried a few tie fighters.

Even if they're only carrying a couple of personal defense gunships, it'd be a good tactical decision for a sovereign, and a necessary one for certain groups.

The xenophobe worldship would be a great candidate. I can't really picture them wandering through space in gunships for so long. The worldship should be their base, and it should be able to deploy its fighters, Maybe xenophobe defenders could carry 2d2 gunships in them and the worldship could deploy 4d2.

Also, maybe the CSCs could replace their orbiting gunships when they're destroyed. I don't mean immediately, but have a slow respawn rate. CSCs would get resupply freighters so it would be receiving replacement centurions too. I just like the idea of the carrier being able to deploy ships, not just having them all circle around it.

thom, that's hilarious

[Guest]

For the Xenophobe Worldship, how about 4d1 + 4 (I don't think it would vary as much as straight 4d2 D(4,5,6,7,8) vs D(2,4,6,8)). Sorry, should've said *MOST* stations.

Star Destroyers carried a few tie fighters

lol, like a few *hundred*. Here is some idea(this is an *idea*) of what I am thinking.

Xenophobe Worldship -- 4d1 + 4 (Xenophobe Fighters) I do not think this ship should run of of backup for long.
Ranx Dreadnought -- 6d1 + 4 (Ranx Gunships) two more than the Xenophobe Worldship. I do not think this ship should run out of backup for long.
Earth Slaver -- 4d1 (slavers) + 1(steel slaver) Alternitively -- 3d1(steel slaverse) This is not so important since all Earth slavers are near a base(usually).
Heliotrope -- 3d1 (the other heliotrope ship) I find 2 of the smaller heliotrope ships are harder than the capship itself

I have not yet seen an Ares capship.