Thoughts on the freighter in 1.07a

[Viperion]

I recently started a vanilla game with the freighter in 1.07a. I haven't played with the freighter for a while, and so I have some random thoughts. I'm not very far in, but I have a couple thoughts.

1) I would like to see some kind of way for freighter players to be able to leverage the Tinkers and Korolev differently. I have sadly never dug into modding as I would like but would it be possible to present a player with a different option based on what ship they are flying? I think it could be fun if the Tinkers offered a freighter player some direct shipping missions, and likewise if a player could carry cargo themselves from a Korolev, you add a bunch of fun little 'emergent' details like being able to sell bulk freight to the black markey but then getting black listed by the Korolev.

2) I have weird luck with the RNG this game. No Korolev stations before Charon, few armor/weapons dealers, but a L5 shield, Shuriken and EMP in the first couple systems. Also, a sung slave camp in Sharon, right near the Korolev. Ever since, I think 1.03, the RNG has felt more random. I can't ever decide if it is a good thing or not.

3) The whole Charon system has never made sense to me. Why hasn't the commonwealth navy came back and smashed this little pirate group that would apparently be greatly hampering shipping into their capital? Why are the pirates destroying the station? If I were a pirate, I would allow the station to exist so their was shipping in the system and so that I would have ships to attack and take over. Their destroying the station doesn't really make sense to me. I think Charon makes more sense in a non-linear topology as a Humanacara like system, but one that is more discoverable.

4) I think 100mw reactors should still be able to take the basic fuel rods. That's an instinctive feeling.

As I said, these are just some thoughts early into a freighter playthrough on vanilla 1.07. I am enjoying the freighter more than I thought I would, which I think is a good sign.

The Hyper Viper

[Aury]

Dunno about the others, but I moved the charon system in TSB - I feel the same about just how odd that its next to the CW capitol, and how easily they could crush it.

[shanejfilomena]

I recently started a vanilla game with the freighter in 1.07a. I haven't played with the freighter for a while, and so I have some random thoughts. I'm not very far in, but I have a couple thoughts.

1) I would like to see some kind of way for freighter players to be able to leverage the Tinkers and Korolev differently. I have sadly never dug into modding as I would like but would it be possible to present a player with a different option based on what ship they are flying? I think it could be fun if the Tinkers offered a freighter player some direct shipping missions, and likewise if a player could carry cargo themselves from a Korolev, you add a bunch of fun little 'emergent' details like being able to sell bulk freight to the black markey but then getting black listed by the Korolev.

2) I have weird luck with the RNG this game. No Korolev stations before Charon, few armor/weapons dealers, but a L5 shield, Shuriken and EMP in the first couple systems. Also, a sung slave camp in Sharon, right near the Korolev. Ever since, I think 1.03, the RNG has felt more random. I can't ever decide if it is a good thing or not.

3) The whole Charon system has never made sense to me. Why hasn't the commonwealth navy came back and smashed this little pirate group that would apparently be greatly hampering shipping into their capital? Why are the pirates destroying the station? If I were a pirate, I would allow the station to exist so their was shipping in the system and so that I would have ships to attack and take over. Their destroying the station doesn't really make sense to me. I think Charon makes more sense in a non-linear topology as a Humanacara like system, but one that is more discoverable.

4) I think 100mw reactors should still be able to take the basic fuel rods. That's an instinctive feeling.

As I said, these are just some thoughts early into a freighter playthrough on vanilla 1.07. I am enjoying the freighter more than I thought I would, which I think is a good sign.

The Hyper Viper

Dunno about the others, but I moved the charon system in TSB - I feel the same about just how odd that its next to the CW capitol, and how easily they could crush it.

BOTH of these are a total YES. I always felt the same but MY problem is : "where would you put it that the player can actually have the shields to deal with it? ", After STK is " nice " but I always felt the way about the system itself as Viperion : it should be " outside " along with Capital systems for ranx, Sung, etc.

I was thinking of trying to make the Charon System a " reward " mission : Legends do not get missions: so why not send them to Charon? ..... it is a long .xml to do that plus other stuff, what i got is long now so my notes on it are still " waiting ".
========
AS for " different missions based on ship " I was playing with that (like most of my ideas: mine is still broke ) : but the only draw-back is a custom ship, those would have to get the default missions since I can not really lock onto all the different ship class' in Mods.

[Viperion]

Shane, I think that could be solved by utilizing some kind of different attributes on ships. (Please forgive me in what I am about to say since as I said, I do not mod Trans or know much if anything about the internals). But since Trans' data files XML-based, I would assume that a tag could be added into the ship definition, something like <Ship-type>bulkfrieghter</Ship-type> that would then be checked by the stations and missions offered based on that. Such a system, whether to be added or already extant, would also allow mod creators the simple ability to add in their own ship-type and their own custom missions to stations fairly easily.

Again, I don't know the Trans internals so please, please forgive me if I am horribly wrong.

The Hyper Viper

[Aury]

Right, that could be done via tags.

[Viperion]

Further thoughts - figuring out what weapons are good on the freighter is a fun problem. My current combo of EMP+Omniparticle is working pretty well, I had tried a less omni-focused approach, but it's too difficult in Charon and against Sung. Only problem is that I lack a good base-killing weapon. I picked up some Dwarg Holochrol armor, and that helps out a good bit against the sung. And a hiro'd M25, makes it a pretty solid ship against most enemies.

I almost, almost feel the omni-particle needs a range drop, from 80 to 70. 70 will bring it into patrol paths more, and I don't feel the omni-particle should be a stand-off weapon.

I really, really like the spoilage mechanic in goods in St. K's. Does make trading a viable and fun way to earn a couple credits.

I was thinking more about Charon, and I think Charon could make a lot more sense as a binary system. You have one system that has a small but semi-vibrant trade economy (a few planets, an asteroid belt with mining, perhaps) and then a second system with lots of asteroid belts, rich in minerals but controlled by the pirates. There could be a Korolev station in that second system, maybe next to a mining colony, and the player can still book it from the gate (in the 'primary' system) to the korolev station in the secondary system to try to save it, or can ignore it altogether. Still gives you the same game mechanic that Charon currently provides (essentially, an optional quest with some nice bonuses) while introducing the player to the binary system concept and making the setup a little more believable. I think it is more believable because it explains why the Commonwealth would allow the pirates to operate in Charon (moving them out of the backyard and into the forest on the other side of the creek) and why the pirates would operate in Charon (there is still mining and commerce that can be done, as the pirates don't have or don't take complete control of the binary system) Kind of how Arco Vaughn and the Centauri raiders are still fairly believable in Eridani with the Raisu Station missions.

Hmm. Maybe my first mod should be an attempt to create what I am thinking about for Charon. That'd be a good demonstration, and maybe then I could work that into one of the adventure extensions.

The Hyper Viper

[shanejfilomena]

actually : hi
my Charon is outside the topology : : check out the drawing board.
but the system is still the system: you have two gates: one in from a hidden gate in Elysium:
the second goes out to STK " like normal from Charon " but once in STK your NOT getting back into Charon

Korolov has far too much code for me : I would have to Frankenstein the station to make it recognize different missions the best " answer " i got to add switches to Korolov is mixing the " Ancient versions " of Korolov that I love using and do mix them up often
My First Shipping Companies : Masak and Gnome : is based on Korolov both Old and Present :

( code+Me, usually = crash, repeatedly : 14 times this week already : my idea of globals is horrible and I try to fit too much in one spot)
to grab the ship is pretty simple

Code: Select all

switch 
							(eq (objGetType gPlayerShip) &scSapphirePlayer;)
								"SapphirePlayer"
							(eq (objGetType gPlayerShip) &scEI100XPlayer;)
								"EI100XPlayer"
							(eq (objGetType gPlayerShip) &scWolfenPlayer;)
								"WolfenPlayer"
							
							"Default"
							)

: custom ships get nothing : but most are Omni powers anyway so trying to cater to a player hiding behind a 100 hit point gun is silly.

Charon as Binary : nooooes. far too much action separated by distance : the game drags on Binary systems or anything resembling them.
some players might not notice that but it does.

[Viperion]

I agree that often in binaries, the game drags (Huari intercept missions in binaries are a killer!). But if you had a specifically designed binary system where you could just hop over to the pirates' side of the binary if you wanted to do the Charon mission, I think it could be designed to be playable and not drag.

I see what you're doing on the selection code there, and like I said, I don't know the Trans internals, but I would think it would be possible to add a ship-kind tag, for Freighter, Yacht, Fighter, and you could just search on that.

The Hyper Viper

[zraven7]

How would people feel about freighter-exclusive weapons? There are already armor types that only the freighter can use, at least in vanilla. Maybe some kinda of uber-heavy base buster, or an omni that takes up both slots, but sports increased range and light station damage. I know some of this has been addressed in mods, but seeing some of it "make the cut" and show up in vanilla would be interesting.

Honestly, a couple of ship-exclusive weapons for each type would be interesting. Or, just make some for the wolfen and the freighter, and allow the sapphire to equip both.

[PM]

In a way, there already is. EI500 can use ammo weapons without sacrificing too much cargo space, and can use heavy weapons (like the IM90) without worrying about losing turning speed. Ares plasma archcannon would be ideal for the EI500 if it did not take two slots to install. Sapphire and Wolfen are easy to overburden and lose turning speed later in the game; and without turning speed, those two ships become inferior freighters.

That said, weight limits for weapons and other devices make as much sense as weight limits for armor. It is funny how a ship that cannot use armor that weighs over 6 tons can use a weapon that weighs over 15 tons.

[Ttech]

In a way, there already is. EI500 can use ammo weapons without sacrificing too much cargo space, and can use heavy weapons (like the IM90) without worrying about losing turning speed. Ares plasma archcannon would be ideal for the EI500 if it did not take two slots to install. Sapphire and Wolfen are easy to overburden and lose turning speed later in the game; and without turning speed, those two ships become inferior freighters.

That said, weight limits for weapons and other devices make as much sense as weight limits for armor. It is funny how a ship that cannot use armor that weighs over 6 tons can use a weapon that weighs over 15 tons.

i think of it as a house, the roof is light but you can put a car in your living room

[Cirevam]

But a house on earth is affected by gravity, where a ship in space isn't as much and is not built to withstand a heavy (or light) roof pushing in only one direction all the time, but is flying around in many directions and undergoing forces from various directions. So why does it matter if the armour is so heavy when the entire ship still has to carry all of its devices and cargo? If weight limits matter at all then there should be an overall weight where the ship just can't support more because the frame might start to buckle from lugging everything around while in combat, or maybe the ship gets so overburdened that it can barely accelerate or turn. After all, a ship with 48 tons in armour and 2 tons in devices weighs the same as a ship with 2 tons of armour and 48 tons in devices.

[Ttech]

But a house on earth is affected by gravity, where a ship in space isn't as much and is not built to withstand a heavy (or light) roof pushing in only one direction all the time, but is flying around in many directions and undergoing forces from various directions. So why does it matter if the armour is so heavy when the entire ship still has to carry all of its devices and cargo? If weight limits matter at all then there should be an overall weight where the ship just can't support more because the frame might start to buckle from lugging everything around while in combat, or maybe the ship gets so overburdened that it can barely accelerate or turn. After all, a ship with 48 tons in armour and 2 tons in devices weighs the same as a ship with 2 tons of armour and 48 tons in devices.

This is true, but the effect of gravity of some form inside the ship and outside might have some effect.

[Atarlost]

But a house on earth is affected by gravity, where a ship in space isn't as much and is not built to withstand a heavy (or light) roof pushing in only one direction all the time, but is flying around in many directions and undergoing forces from various directions. So why does it matter if the armour is so heavy when the entire ship still has to carry all of its devices and cargo? If weight limits matter at all then there should be an overall weight where the ship just can't support more because the frame might start to buckle from lugging everything around while in combat, or maybe the ship gets so overburdened that it can barely accelerate or turn. After all, a ship with 48 tons in armour and 2 tons in devices weighs the same as a ship with 2 tons of armour and 48 tons in devices.

The ship is under WAY more than 1g acceleration. Put too much mass anywhere and the internal bracing just won't handle it. The devices require rarer installation services than armor so installing them may include adding additional structural reinforcement for the heavier devices.

[Song]

I imagine that weapons slots are designed to handle recoil forces, weapons malfunctions, and possibly even misfires. So they'd be pretty specialised....the sapphire would get around this because it's a yacht: So it's been designed for everyone from Barry McSpaceEstateAgent through to Fred McDrugDealingPirateNinjaWarlord, and thus has universal connections on all its slots, or something.