Notable Beginner Weapons Discussion

[digdug]

maybe to give more dent to the turbolaser we could change the damage from 2d4+1 to 1d4+5.
Max damage would be the same, of course, but the weapon will have have more probability to deliver higher damages. (at least 6, instead of at least 3 for the normal turbolaser)

Making this kind of subtle optimizations would lead us to start calculating average damages and not max damages.

[Prophet]

Laser and kinetic weapons become obsolete too fast to worry about finding a 'good' one.

A level 5 armor reduces the damage to 25%

Trying to kill a drake (light blast plate) with a turbolaser takes forever at only 6 dps. At 1d4 a simple laser will fail to score even 1 point of damage 75% of the time. A particle weapon will still do 80% damage to a level 5 armor.

I might be more inclined to use these lower damage types if they had some abilities beyond raw damage like passthrough or longer range. Basically just more variation than number of shots and fire rate.

[Atarlost]

The advantage the low damage types have is the enhancers. You can get double damage from lasers or 175% damage from kinetics for an extra device slot and a tiny trickle of power.

Level based resistances don't exist in a vacuum. Level 5 Sung Armor takes only 25% from laser and kinetic, but it doesn't take 80% from particle. It takes 53%. And there's no particle equivalent to the laser colimnator or cannon accelerator. Level 5 Dwarg Catoptric armor takes allmost no damage at all from particle because it reflects. Particle is really only good against the Charon pirates and marauders.

Shields tend to have more balanced resistances, but the shield damage curve is a lot shallower. laser/kinetic doesn't drop below half damage until level 8 for shields. Because of the colimnator lasers are competative with ion/thermo against shields up to level 7, and kinetic with the weaker cannon accelerator are still competative with ion/thermo against level 6 shields. That's for equivalent numerical damage. The top laser/kinetic weapons actually have very high numerical damage. A flenser (no booster) will take down the shields on a Diemos faster than a Katana.

[Fossaman]

I typically keep a laser/particle/ion weapon and a kinetic/blast/thermo weapon installed simultaneously, actually. So I don't switch to a flenser, I just add one in when it's available.

Anyway, I dislike the fast-fire laser cannon for aiming reasons. I have a much easier time hitting with dual lasers somehow.

[Arisaya]

I typically keep a laser/particle/ion weapon and a kinetic/blast/thermo weapon installed simultaneously, actually. So I don't switch to a flenser, I just add one in when it's available.

Anyway, I dislike the fast-fire laser cannon for aiming reasons. I have a much easier time hitting with dual lasers somehow.

I find it annoying when both my shots pass to either side of a battlepod...
On the other hand, it does help slightly against himal interceptors...

[Song]

Hornets are best dealt with by holding down the fire button and waiting for them to come around again. I've actually seen them outrun smartcannon shells when I've fired them while travelling (and that's in the RIGHT direction....not firing them backwards )....so if I'm not packing an omni weapon, I generally either missile them before they get close, or just point my guns into space, hold down the fire key, and press "A".

Atarlost<---The Flenser is really that good against later-game shields? I must try that some time....I must confess, I tend to ignore Flensers, but I did find them nice the one time I made an effort to use them....

[Atarlost]

Any weapon that's above the rest of its damage has a relative advantage against shields because the shield damage curve is shallower than the armor damage curve and very few enemies have shields with nonstandard resistances so the X-ray, Dual TEV-9, and Hanzo also make good shield busters. The Dual TEV and Hanzo start losing their edge after level 8 instead of 7 and there are no external boosters for them. I don't think there are any level 8 shields used by enemies in default Transcendence, though, so their niche is nonexistant, and they lack the range of the Flenser so their competition isn't the Katana but the more powerful ion blaster. None of these handle the level 9 Kaidun shield very well.

[Song]

There isn't much that handles the kaidun......it's about the only thing I like about the Phobos, for all it has an insanely high ion bombardment, and a feeble howizter weapon....that shield suits it really well.


One thing I have noticed in the early game.....because the White Strelka is at quite a low level, it actually can turn up in Eridani.....which is slightly odd, given you can't get a Makayev until ~St. Katherines.....

I also notice this with MAG launchers....they only start turning up in any kind of frequency when the KM500s and (sometimes) XM900s are making the NAMI start to shine......but that might just be the RNG....


...and while we're at it, apart from Plasteel/Light Plasteel, are there any nice beginner ARMORs at/below Level 4 or so? I tend to just ignore things like XMH or Tevlar Composite armors.....but I'd be interested to hear if any of them are actually *decent*.....

[Atarlost]

XMH is only good if you get lucky with an early patcher arm because it can't be repaired by shops. None of the armors really shine until Duralloy.

I generally gravitate to some form of plasteel because it's balanced and not terribly expensive. Or I stick with the starting armor and just focus on the shield. Double titanium barricades aren't shabby if you're in the freighter. Nothing really stands out though early on.

[Song]

I thought so.....although there are enough Dry Docks around for XMH to be *fairly* useable, the only way I would get it is if I have some heavy water spare, and there's a tinker.

I'm a fan of getting Ceralox (advanced preferably.).....very rarely Orthosteel (which I'm not that keen on).......and surprisingly often, Gusoku Armor, if I can find it.....I've had it turn up in eridani several times before, so It IS a "beginner" armor, in some cases.... (Yes, I know it's weak against laser and kinetic. But if you find Centauri nanos or regenerative nanos, it'll last all the way to St. ks, and a considerable distance beyond. )

I've never really liked Duralloy....it is pretty cheap and self-repairing, but that regen doesn't help if you get mobbed.....only sheer hitpoints help, and Duralloy is rather lacking in that. Still, that's more my talent for getting hit a lot...

[Fossaman]

I generally consider any fight where I'm forced to fall back on my armor a losing proposition. At least until armor HP gets to decent numbers.

With the high probability of getting an armor dealer in Eridani now, I like to ID as many barrels as I can right off the bat. And level IV armors aren't that unusual there either, so I've been playing around with using one of the unbalanced armors (polyceramic and tevlar-composite, I think they are) and adding paste that counters its weakness. Not sure how effective this actually is. But the paste helps the resale value, at any rate.

[Prophet]

I usually focus on my shield and only upgrade my armor with what I find. Once the charon pirates start dropping blast plate I'll use some ablative paste to counter it's vulnerability, matched with it's above average hp it will last me until I can find something in the level 7+ range much later.

Shields are key, if my armor is getting damaged that's my cue to bug out immediately.

[schilcote]

Yeah, I allways thought that shields were for fighting, and armor was for running away. I would think it might be a good idea, if you only have 3 plates, to upgrade the back side first because that's what your enemy is going to see the most of once your shields go down.

[Atarlost]

Unless you're using omnis and/or slow front is more important than sides because that's what you need to point at the enemy to take shots at pursuers.

It's not early game, but combining the Trenton with good regenerating armor can be very powerful. You don't get the usual EMP immunity and device protect shields give, but you can put ion reflect on the trenton to protect from those pretty well. That gives you two pools of regenerating hitpoints and spreads damage between them with most of the damage being handled by the fast regenerating trenton.

[Song]

Now that RC1 & RC2 have given us some new stuff, are there any new weapons that are exceptional?

The Ballista comes to mind.....but there are a few other changes.

The new RK15 omni seems rather weak for an omni weapon. Largely because firing in the 180 degree arc behind you robs your shot of a LOT of velocity. But the one time I've used it, it did take out corsairs nicely. With accelerators, it
might be decent, I suppose...


The new low-range, blast turrets (Moskvas?) I've not tried yet, but if they're at all like the non-omni blast weapon that got introduce, the short range negates much of the nice damage....

(But I still have yet to try them )