CSC America: Athena class gunship

[sun1404]

I think fragmenting missiles would have these advantages over single impact ones:

1. When aimed at a general area, fragmenting missiles would do about the same average damage as single hit missiles of the same level, but more equally distributed across the area. This may mean wasting more damage before taking a ship down, but it also mean relying less on chance, and the effectiveness is more predictable and stable over multiple uses.

2. Especially considering capital ships have internals, which mean destroying one segment will not kill them, I believe fragmenting missiles would fare better. After taking a somewhat longer time to break the armor, they'll probably break about three or four simultaneously. Then any missiles that hit one of these broken segments will deal damage to the internal. Single hit missiles, on the other hand, will only break one segment, while maybe leaving other segments heavily damaged. Now only the missiles that hit that one broken segment will damage the internal, while others must be wasted on the other segments first.

3. Fragmenting missiles will be much harder to intercept than single hit missiles. If the missile fragments into a dozen just before reaching PD range, it'll be impossible to destroy all of them. The majority would hit. Single hit missiles risk getting shot down much more.

4. When fired upon a swarm, fragmenting missiles can function as swarm busters as well, provided we have a way to make each missile target different ships. This should be possible if we spawn the missiles slightly offset, and just let them target the nearest ship. Cover the offset spawning with some visual effects. Thise method means that, if fired upon a single capital ship, all fragments will still target that ship, and not attempt to reach other, faraway ships.

5. They do look cool. Really.

[TVR]

I know the current argument against "virtual crews" is that it doesn't fit the "character of the Commonwealth", but that's very subjective and arguable. Isn't it? Don't wars change characters anyway?

The Ares have a mass cloning program, so the Commonwealth counters with mass digitization - The reference has blown my mind.

[JohnBWatson]

I know the current argument against "virtual crews" is that it doesn't fit the "character of the Commonwealth", but that's very subjective and arguable. Isn't it? Don't wars change characters anyway?

The Ares have a mass cloning program, so the Commonwealth counters with mass digitization - The reference has blown my mind.

I like either method. Transhuman crew would be an interesting dynamic for the Fleet, and would certainly make sense as a policy. On the other hand, a pure AI would really make it clear that we've reached the endgame. Persistent experience across multiple units, no threat of mutiny or discontent, and flawless execution of orders would be massively rewarding given that much of the game appears to be centered around the challenge of commanding a crew of thousands of individuals with their own desires and motivations.

[PM]

I am not fond of the idea of so-called digitized humans. I would think the notion of "digitized humans" would either be a scam by the hardware manufacturers with ulterior political motives (much like carbon credits) or be sinister demonic entities posing as these "digitized humans" (i.e., familiar spirits). Either way, I would not consider them human (i.e., they are either AI or malevolent spirit trying to pose as human) and would not trust them.

I have not acquired, let alone played, Eternity Port, so I do not know the full story behind these "digitized humans".

[JohnBWatson]

I have not acquired, let alone played, Eternity Port, so I do not know the full story behind these "digitized humans".

Rich people put themselves into computers so they can live forever, basically. It's transhumanism.

In any case, I still prefer distributed AI. The Fleet's doctrine is based on that of the U.S. Navy, and AI is what they're working on at the moment. It's also got more of a 'cool' factor.

While we're on that topic, here are some traits that could set an endgame gunship apart from the other units.

• Omnidirectional weapons that the player hasn't been able to use
  
  Long ranged tracking weapons
  
  Reflective shields and/or armor of any kind
  
  Regenerating armor
  
  Enhanced combat AI
  
  Perfect obedience
  
  Shared EXP
  
  Multiple simultaneously functional weapons hardpoints
  
  Point defenses
  
  Device disruption
  
  High speed and agility
  
  Use of respawning autons
  
  Ability to 'disable' incoming micronukes/warhammers, given that the Fleet at present lacks a hard counter to massed Tundras

[PM]

Rich people put themselves into computers so they can live forever, basically. It's transhumanism.

Sounds more like the perfect con job by the computer manufacturers, and they have done such a slick job that they have not been caught.

[Atarlost]

Uploading is either universally available or not available at all. Clavius Insurance appears to use some sort of implant to do neo-cylon style uploading to clones and does not require uploads. CDM does uploading, but the CDM is not part of the Commonwealth. The Abbasid may do uploading, but they aren't either. There is no evidence the Commonwealth has working upload technology other than to imprint the mind onto a clone of the same organic brain it started life in.

The escalating price on Clavius Clones indicates that they lose money when you die before the insurance expires. I don't know how much of that is replacing your ship and how much is replacing you, but the process may be too expensive for the fleet.

[Song]

In addition, the CDM upload is quite possibly destructive.....which would mean you have to die in order for a copy of you to live forever.


In short, the tech is there ingame....but it's not the sort of thing the Fleet seems likely to use, and they probably lack access to it anyway. A human pilot is probably considered more 'reliable'.

[JohnBWatson]

Uploading is either universally available or not available at all. Clavius Insurance appears to use some sort of implant to do neo-cylon style uploading to clones and does not require uploads. CDM does uploading, but the CDM is not part of the Commonwealth.

Based on a basic scientific understanding of how the brain works, I believe I can provide an explanation here. (Being the premier American behavioral psychologist, I should at least hope so.)

Clavicus need not understand how the brain works, nor need they create an environment in which the mind can function on its own. All they must do is take a copy of the brain structure, create a cloned 'empty shell', and use the structure generated to build a copy of the brain within the new body. Whether the transference of memories acquired after the purchase of insurance is the result of a 'black box', an extension of Dominia's powers, or simply an abstraction, the technological level of Clavicus remains relatively constant.

CDM, in contrast, must not only understand the functions of the brain, they must do so well enough to create a digital copy, and an environment that said copy can interface with to the point where their life is utopian. The difference here is akin to the difference between copying an encrypted text file from an Email and sending it back to the sender, and taking the text, de - encrypting it, and working it into a computer program that will calculate the exact value of pi while writing Shakespeare.

What this means, of course, is that the Commonwealth is unlikely to possess the resources and technology necessary to upload people into computers, much less in a manner widely available enough to be a military asset. We do, however, know that automated drones are commonplace, and that advanced distributed AI is present in the setting, and that both of these technologies are being looked into by even present day powers.

Clavicus must only take a copy of customers'
There is no evidence the Commonwealth has working upload technology other than to imprint the mind onto a clone of the same organic brain it started life in.

The brain is the information. The way nerve cells are connected determines one's memories, personality, and all else about their psychology.

The escalating price on Clavius Clones indicates that they lose money when you die before the insurance expires. I don't know how much of that is replacing your ship and how much is replacing you, but the process may be too expensive for the fleet.

It is, more likely than not, the cost of replacing your ship. Quantum computers are commonplace, and it is thus quite likely that they can map a brain for relatively little cost. The Ares have an entire society built by clones, so cloning a body isn't likely to be difficult either. On the extreme high end, 2,000 credits is a rough estimate of how much it would cost to clone a human, given the casualty rate of their desired market, the cost of relevant medical supplies, and the fact that they're still in business, as well as the fact that only the very successful can afford a policy, and their ships are likely to be expensive to replace.

Cloning is unlikely to be too expensive for the Fleet, given that a single Aquila costs enough to buy many, many policies from Clavicus.

---

In short, the tech is there ingame....but it's not the sort of thing the Fleet seems likely to use, and they probably lack access to it anyway. A human pilot is probably considered more 'reliable'.

Human pilots aren't reliable, which seems to be the central point of America at this stage of planning. It seems to me that the Fleet would be seeking something expendable yet unable to rebel. Hence, drones.

Come to think of it, that could have an interesting impact on gameplay in other ways. If you need to raid a station that is friendly to your forces, send a squadron of Autons. You'd have to keep your more virtuous pilots from finding out, however.

[Atarlost]

Right, but if the fleet can afford Clavius style resurrection there's nothing special about the Athena. It would be available for any gunship. The hardware to do uploads seems to be associated with a person, not a ship. Maybe it's economical only for elite pilots, but that's still ship independent.

[JohnBWatson]

Right, but if the fleet can afford Clavius style resurrection there's nothing special about the Athena. It would be available for any gunship. The hardware to do uploads seems to be associated with a person, not a ship. Maybe it's economical only for elite pilots, but that's still ship independent.

Clavius resurrection is making a copy of the pilot and buying a new ship for him to fly, which, come to think of it, will probably be in the game on its own right. Given the emphasis on individual crew members, picking a few of your best to buy insurance for seems likely.

[AssumedPseudonym]

Right, but if the fleet can afford Clavius style resurrection there's nothing special about the Athena. It would be available for any gunship. The hardware to do uploads seems to be associated with a person, not a ship. Maybe it's economical only for elite pilots, but that's still ship independent.

Clavius resurrection is making a copy of the pilot and buying a new ship for him to fly, which, come to think of it, will probably be in the game on its own right. Given the emphasis on individual crew members, picking a few of your best to buy insurance for seems likely.

 It does make you wonder a bit about Clavius, though. On the one hand, I have no problem with a headcanon of Clavius having Ares connections (what with the whole cloning thing and all), so them having access to an APA to put on your new ship might not be as far fetched as it would otherwise seem. On the other hand, it doesn’t explain some of other exotic stuff you might have had installed, or even just had in your hold. Where are they going to get their hands on the Lamplighter prototype or Dvalin Ion9, for instance?

[Song]

Right, but if the fleet can afford Clavius style resurrection there's nothing special about the Athena. It would be available for any gunship. The hardware to do uploads seems to be associated with a person, not a ship. Maybe it's economical only for elite pilots, but that's still ship independent.

Clavius resurrection is making a copy of the pilot and buying a new ship for him to fly, which, come to think of it, will probably be in the game on its own right. Given the emphasis on individual crew members, picking a few of your best to buy insurance for seems likely.

 It does make you wonder a bit about Clavius, though. On the one hand, I have no problem with a headcanon of Clavius having Ares connections (what with the whole cloning thing and all), so them having access to an APA to put on your new ship might not be as far fetched as it would otherwise seem. On the other hand, it doesn’t explain some of other exotic stuff you might have had installed, or even just had in your hold. Where are they going to get their hands on the Lamplighter prototype or Dvalin Ion9, for instance?

Well they can make copies of people. It's probably a fair bet that Rasiermesser insured their top scientist at some point.

[JohnBWatson]

 It does make you wonder a bit about Clavius, though. On the one hand, I have no problem with a headcanon of Clavius having Ares connections (what with the whole cloning thing and all), so them having access to an APA to put on your new ship might not be as far fetched as it would otherwise seem. On the other hand, it doesn’t explain some of other exotic stuff you might have had installed, or even just had in your hold. Where are they going to get their hands on the Lamplighter prototype or Dvalin Ion9, for instance?

The most reasonable explanation that I've been able to come up with is that they loot your wreck. Makes sense, given that there's never anything in it when you go back there, and the CH does tend to be good at reclaiming lost assets.

[sun1404]

Clavius's policies prices skyrocket each time you buy it. They probably keep a record of each customer's risk. They may also have different policies for different people. Active soldiers of the fleet may be seen as a high-risk customer, and have a high price should they desire an insurance. The player, though possessing a military ID and military equipments, may not be classified so because they are not bound to duty as soldiers, only serving the military from time to time, at their own consent. They do not have the risk of, say, being ordered to do a high-risk mission that they can't decline, or forced to defend a CSC from an enemy strike force.