Vary Ships by Enhancements/Defects

Post ideas & suggestions you have pertaining to the game here.
Post Reply
Kourtious
Militia Lieutenant
Militia Lieutenant
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:00 pm
Location: Off in the distance

Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:38 am

The ships do not differ except in equipment. The major reason why players want to buy a ship is because another ship offers something that the current ship doesn't have. This almost certainly means lower tier ships and current ship chassis are not considered. I think adding enhancements or defects to ships would make incentivize players, especially endgame, to pursue a certain quality ship, even if it is their current ship chassis.

The Wolfen maybe outdated by the Centurion-X in the late game, but what if the Wolfen has a perk that enhances the efficiency any reactor installed on it by 20%? Now this would increase the cost of Wolfen but you would also have a more competitive option. The opposite is true. If you want a Centurion-X but you don't have the funds, you may look for a defective but significantly cheaper Centurion-X with let's say, 20% lower maneuverability. You really envy that higher armor weight limit and this defect is much cheaper to the standard model. Perfect for a player on a budget that wants a new ship.

Graphically, ships with defects could look more damaged. Let's say later in the game, you fall in love with the Centurion-X, you could pay money to restore the ship at the shipyard. The more defective the ship, the more expensive it would be to restore the ship. You would also get a nice paint job for your good old rust bucket.

Next, the quality of ship selection could also depend on where the player is visiting. If you go buy a ship off the black market station in an early system, there maybe a rare military ship but also a higher chance that is will also be defective. However, if you go to a military installation or a shipyard, the ships there might not only have one enhancement but two or more. These ships could be very expensive to obtain but it would reflect the production quality of various systems and factions.

If there is one thing that Transcendence could use to spice up the game, this would fit nicely into the next release.

PM
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 2415
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:54 am

Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:03 pm

This sort of happens already with some ships. Freyr getting swivel and Minotaur having linked-fire. Others have some abnormally high stat and do not need enhancements, such as Wolfen's speed, EI200's capacity, or EI500's non-weapon slot capacity (although one must be a hold, which is not a problem when most ships want one).

Wolfen is already a very good ship. It has .25c top speed and excellent handling. (Some people think Wolfen is overpowered simply because it is too fast out-of-the-box.) It takes quite a bit to be a better ship than Wolfen, and the few that are, are found halfway through the game. Centurion/X is good, but almost outclassed by Minotaur which appears at about the same time. With Eternity Port, Evern with nine all-purpose slots and (what appears to be) standard heavy gunship limits looks really good, maybe one of the few to compete with Minotaur.

One thing I like to see is the addition of Constellation and Freyr ships in the Ship Broker. They cannot be bought at the moment.
Download and Play in 1.9 alpha...
Drake Technologies (Alpha): More hardware for combat in parts 1 and 2!

Other playable mods from 1.8 and 1.7, waiting to be updated...
Godmode v3 (WIP): Dev/cheat tool compatible with D&O parts 1 or 2.
Star Castle Arcade: Relive classic arcade gaming in a new Transcendence adventure!
Playership Drones (WIP): Acquire more wingmen from Ship Broker. Unfinished, but updated to 1.8 beta.
Drake Technologies (Alpha) for 1.8: If you do not have 1.9 alpha 1...

Kourtious
Militia Lieutenant
Militia Lieutenant
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:00 pm
Location: Off in the distance

Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:47 pm

I think you are misunderstanding the post. I mean that a Wolfen could have different enhancements/defects. For example, a Wolfen model could have the enhancement that every reactor has 20% bonus base efficiency compared to regular models. This would come at a higher cost to buy. It is the same ship chassis but better. The opposite could be the same in that the Wolfen could have a defect, such as 20% lower maneuverability but come at a significant discount. The idea is that there are not only different ship chassis you can choose from but also the quality of that ship chassis. I often find the choices of ships in Transcendence to be lackluster to other games and this idea would increase variety and replayability without actually adding more ship types to the dockyard.

PM
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 2415
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:54 am

Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:16 pm

For ships with intrinsic stats deviating from the norm, it seems George's style is to make new variants, just like he did with the Wolfen just now (for Corporate Command) and Centurion a release or two back. Otherwise, player gets a different ship class. Want a better Wolfen? Get a Centurion/X. Want a freighter than can haul more than EI500? Get an EI200. Want the super-ship that can do everything and have more firepower than the rest? Get the Minotaur.

Maybe ships can have varying equipment to emulate what you want. Ships will need frequencies like items so that one class with a ton of variants do not crowd out every other ship spawn.

I find that ship choices leave some to be desired because 1) the starters are good enough out-of-the-box and 2) Minotaur mostly trumps all once it appears by the middle of Ungoverned Territories. I pick Wolfen, and I do not want anything else that is not Minotaur. Well, if Minotaur did not exist, I probably would upgrade to Centurion/X. Also, ships are so expensive early, and by the time I save enough money, it is late enough to look for Minotaur. If I play Eternity Port, my first priority is to upgrade from a starter to a Wolfen, then a better ship later.
Download and Play in 1.9 alpha...
Drake Technologies (Alpha): More hardware for combat in parts 1 and 2!

Other playable mods from 1.8 and 1.7, waiting to be updated...
Godmode v3 (WIP): Dev/cheat tool compatible with D&O parts 1 or 2.
Star Castle Arcade: Relive classic arcade gaming in a new Transcendence adventure!
Playership Drones (WIP): Acquire more wingmen from Ship Broker. Unfinished, but updated to 1.8 beta.
Drake Technologies (Alpha) for 1.8: If you do not have 1.9 alpha 1...

Kourtious
Militia Lieutenant
Militia Lieutenant
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:00 pm
Location: Off in the distance

Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:15 pm

The premise of this suggestion would be change how ships are represented and therefore would have to change George's style. Variations of ships for specific ships does not exclude the production quality. If a ship were to be produced in a scrapyard vs a grand shipyard, there will likely be a big difference in the product. For your point about costs of ships, I think the player should have the option to refit their own weapons at only the cost of refitting than buying the weapons. Most of the time, players would prefer their own weapons over the one offered in the chassis, because players would often have good weapons or loot to supplement the ship. Also, by lowering the cost of the ship itself, players would be incentivized to buy these ships more, making variations matter even more. It's not a "what if this was changed" but okay, how can we change this and the surrounding effects to make it more appealing for the player.

relanat
Militia Captain
Militia Captain
Posts: 816
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:56 am

Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:50 am

I like this idea. The ships which are currently available are all the same just with different devices. ATM you can buy a Sapphire with different armor and weapons but it is still a Sapphire with all the Sapphire stats. Same with all ship classes.

A faster Sapphire could be available at a higher cost. An cheaper EI200 could be available but be even slower or only able to mount lighter armor because it is a bit beat up or a bit of a lemon. A more expensive EI500 which has upgraded electronics so it can have three weapons installed and/or an efficiency bonus for energy weapons.

The ships could appear the same but have different names, eg Sapphire MkII, EI500 Upgrade4. This would work for enhancements. Dodgy ships would be best represented as appearing a bit beat up. Changing the ship appearance will be more difficult. Graphics is a somewhat specialized field (this is a fancy way of saying I am crap at it!). Possibly a semi transparent overlay could be used which matched the ship outline similar to Xenophobe-destroyed Comm settlements. Not sure.
Stupid code. Do what I want, not what I typed in!

PM
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 2415
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:54 am

Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:21 pm

Most of the value from ships comes from items. Hull price is very cheap, with the default being 1,000 credits. In releases before Ship Broker, it was assumed hull value was 1,000 credits (according to Sisters when donating money).

If stats vary from the norm, there needs to be a way to show that to the player. Something that does not require player memorizing ship stats or flipping screens from Ship Configuration and back.

I have doubts on overlays for some ships. Sapphire is small and twiggy enough that overlays would probably make it look like a wreck.
The ships could appear the same but have different names, eg Sapphire MkII, EI500 Upgrade4.
That is the point of some variants like Ronins and Centurions. Of course, Ronins are weak NPC ships and we cannot buy them. Until recent versions, many variants appeared identical to each other. Only recently has George upgraded some of the models and give the variants distinct markings or the like. That was useful in case of Centurions, with enemy Rogue Centurions mixed in with Commonwealth ones or Rama.

Then, there are (or were) few classes with T31/T55 used as placeholder sprites. NAU used to have Ronins and other Commonwealth ships until George made derivatives of the Spartan.
Download and Play in 1.9 alpha...
Drake Technologies (Alpha): More hardware for combat in parts 1 and 2!

Other playable mods from 1.8 and 1.7, waiting to be updated...
Godmode v3 (WIP): Dev/cheat tool compatible with D&O parts 1 or 2.
Star Castle Arcade: Relive classic arcade gaming in a new Transcendence adventure!
Playership Drones (WIP): Acquire more wingmen from Ship Broker. Unfinished, but updated to 1.8 beta.
Drake Technologies (Alpha) for 1.8: If you do not have 1.9 alpha 1...

Kourtious
Militia Lieutenant
Militia Lieutenant
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:00 pm
Location: Off in the distance

Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:53 pm

@Relanat
Enhancements/defects should not change the fundamental aspects of a ship. I would advocate for reactor efficiency, faster weapon attack speed, and faster acceleration but I would not advocate for changing the amount of weapon slots or device slots.

To differentiate ships with enhancements and defects, a naming system that does not reference a different variant (thus implying different base qualities) but one that indicates enhancements/defects. I suggest a defect icon after the name such as Sapphire (D) to indicate a defective model. For enhancements, there would be a (E) after their name. If there are both, (ED) would be used.

@PM
I agree that the base cost of the hull needs to be changed to match what the ship offers. Further, I also believe the cost of weapons need to go down in respect to the cost of hull.

PM
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 2415
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:54 am

Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:47 pm

I do not see price of items being changed much, as least not in the foreseeable future, seeing that much about them have been calibrated for years, and the items were just rebalanced in 1.7 and 1.8. Ship Broker was only added recently, since 1.8. Items made cheaper for the sake of hulls would be a major balance shift, especially for loot and rewards.
Download and Play in 1.9 alpha...
Drake Technologies (Alpha): More hardware for combat in parts 1 and 2!

Other playable mods from 1.8 and 1.7, waiting to be updated...
Godmode v3 (WIP): Dev/cheat tool compatible with D&O parts 1 or 2.
Star Castle Arcade: Relive classic arcade gaming in a new Transcendence adventure!
Playership Drones (WIP): Acquire more wingmen from Ship Broker. Unfinished, but updated to 1.8 beta.
Drake Technologies (Alpha) for 1.8: If you do not have 1.9 alpha 1...

Kourtious
Militia Lieutenant
Militia Lieutenant
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:00 pm
Location: Off in the distance

Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:18 pm

Regardless of the cost of ship weapons, I do think players should have the option of buying the hull of a ship and refitting what they want. This will raise the hull prices but in general, should make it easier for players to consider and buy ships. Adding defects and enhancements further incentivizes player interest in what ship they want to use in the future.

Post Reply